1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby Ness » Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:58 am

I've always had an affinity for the 2004 Rams, which is strange to say as a 49ers fan. They are without a doubt one of the worst teams to ever make the post season when you look at their metrics. Turned the ball over a ton, defense was terrible, and their whiz head coach in Martz, and offense with household names was starting to see it's final sunrise. The NFC was so bad that year the Rams simply couldn't be eliminated, so they along with the Vikings made it that year. Anyway, they were still able to beat the NFC West champ Seahawks twice that year including the playoffs before getting slayed by the Falcons. That was about as far as a team like that could really go though.

Another one is the 2003 Panthers. A team that didn't have any known stars, impress that much on either side of the ball, but weren't terrible. I always felt like that John Fox team was the perfect one for anyone new to the NFL to latch on to. The Panthers weren't even 10 years old at that juncture, but started to have a bit of a window for a few years starting with that season. They could have beat the Patriots that year if one or two things went their way in that game.
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby sheajets » Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:04 pm

Ness wrote:I've always had an affinity for the 2004 Rams, which is strange to say as a 49ers fan. They are without a doubt one of the worst teams to ever make the post season when you look at their metrics. Turned the ball over a ton, defense was terrible, and their whiz head coach in Martz, and offense with household names was starting to see it's final sunrise. The NFC was so bad that year the Rams simply couldn't be eliminated, so they along with the Vikings made it that year. Anyway, they were still able to beat the NFC West champ Seahawks twice that year including the playoffs before getting slayed by the Falcons. That was about as far as a team like that could really go though.

Another one is the 2003 Panthers. A team that didn't have any known stars, impress that much on either side of the ball, but weren't terrible. I always felt like that John Fox team was the perfect one for anyone new to the NFL to latch on to. The Panthers weren't even 10 years old at that juncture, but started to have a bit of a window for a few years starting with that season. They could have beat the Patriots that year if one or two things went their way in that game.


I remember the final game of that season where the Jets had to go into the TWA Dome and needed either a win, tie or get a Buffalo Bills loss to make the playoffs. We were 10-5 and frustratingly hadn't clinched a Wild Card yet. Bills were coming on strong late in the season in what was Drew Bledsoe's last hurrah.

It turned out to be a great football game with plenty of lead changes, big plays, chaotic moments, near misses etc. Rams go up 21-10...the Jets rally and then taking the lead on a Jonathan Vilma INT return for a TD. The game would go into overtime tied 29-29.

Right around this time the the Jets found out the Bills had been defeated by the 15-1 (but playing for nothing) Steelers at home. They were in. Strangely (foolishly?) the Jets did not pull their starters but did just try to get the game over with ASAP. Herm Edwards attempted a 53 yard game winner from Brien, who had one of the weakest legs in football at the time. Had Buffalo won he'd probably be punting trying to pin the Rams back...possibly playing for a tie that late in OT. Of course Brien missed the field goal, and the Rams went down a shortened field and won the game. Rams won despite losing the turnover battle 0-3
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby Oszuscik » Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:03 am

Ness wrote:I've always had an affinity for the 2004 Rams, which is strange to say as a 49ers fan. They are without a doubt one of the worst teams to ever make the post season when you look at their metrics. Turned the ball over a ton, defense was terrible, and their whiz head coach in Martz, and offense with household names was starting to see it's final sunrise. The NFC was so bad that year the Rams simply couldn't be eliminated, so they along with the Vikings made it that year. Anyway, they were still able to beat the NFC West champ Seahawks twice that year including the playoffs before getting slayed by the Falcons. That was about as far as a team like that could really go though.

Another one is the 2003 Panthers. A team that didn't have any known stars, impress that much on either side of the ball, but weren't terrible. I always felt like that John Fox team was the perfect one for anyone new to the NFL to latch on to. The Panthers weren't even 10 years old at that juncture, but started to have a bit of a window for a few years starting with that season. They could have beat the Patriots that year if one or two things went their way in that game.


Crazy stat about those 2004 Rams, only two players on defense intercepted a pass all season (Jerametrius Butler with 5 and Travis Fisher with 1). Also, Pro Football Reference's metrics have the Rams ranked as the fourth worst team in the entire league that season. Wow.
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby sheajets » Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:45 am

Oszuscik wrote:
Ness wrote:I've always had an affinity for the 2004 Rams, which is strange to say as a 49ers fan. They are without a doubt one of the worst teams to ever make the post season when you look at their metrics. Turned the ball over a ton, defense was terrible, and their whiz head coach in Martz, and offense with household names was starting to see it's final sunrise. The NFC was so bad that year the Rams simply couldn't be eliminated, so they along with the Vikings made it that year. Anyway, they were still able to beat the NFC West champ Seahawks twice that year including the playoffs before getting slayed by the Falcons. That was about as far as a team like that could really go though.

Another one is the 2003 Panthers. A team that didn't have any known stars, impress that much on either side of the ball, but weren't terrible. I always felt like that John Fox team was the perfect one for anyone new to the NFL to latch on to. The Panthers weren't even 10 years old at that juncture, but started to have a bit of a window for a few years starting with that season. They could have beat the Patriots that year if one or two things went their way in that game.


Crazy stat about those 2004 Rams, only two players on defense intercepted a pass all season (Jerametrius Butler with 5 and Travis Fisher with 1). Also, Pro Football Reference's metrics have the Rams ranked as the fourth worst team in the entire league that season. Wow.


They really had the 9-7 Seahawks number beating them 3 times (once in the playoffs) they beat the 13-1 resting starters with 2 weeks to go Eagles (Koy Detmer and Jeff Blake combined to go 5/20 for 46 yards and Dorsey Levens and Reno Mahe were getting carries. The Eagles essentially forfeited after pulling McNabb after 1 series) and then the Jets who were playing desperate football for most of the game.

They're a very strange team in that that offense was absolutely explosive but also astonishingly undisciplined. They scored a surprisingly little amount of points due to penalties, sacks, and turnovers. They led the league in offense drives that ended in a turnover. They had a porous offensive line which gave up a lot of sacks. Still...Holt and Bruce were great players having great years. McDonald and Curtis solid 3 and 4 options. You had Marshall Faulk still, an effective player and a young Steven Jackson playing well. They shot themselves in the foot a lot but had the pure talent to make up for it.
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby Ness » Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:29 pm

sheajets wrote:
Oszuscik wrote:
Ness wrote:I've always had an affinity for the 2004 Rams, which is strange to say as a 49ers fan. They are without a doubt one of the worst teams to ever make the post season when you look at their metrics. Turned the ball over a ton, defense was terrible, and their whiz head coach in Martz, and offense with household names was starting to see it's final sunrise. The NFC was so bad that year the Rams simply couldn't be eliminated, so they along with the Vikings made it that year. Anyway, they were still able to beat the NFC West champ Seahawks twice that year including the playoffs before getting slayed by the Falcons. That was about as far as a team like that could really go though.

Another one is the 2003 Panthers. A team that didn't have any known stars, impress that much on either side of the ball, but weren't terrible. I always felt like that John Fox team was the perfect one for anyone new to the NFL to latch on to. The Panthers weren't even 10 years old at that juncture, but started to have a bit of a window for a few years starting with that season. They could have beat the Patriots that year if one or two things went their way in that game.


Crazy stat about those 2004 Rams, only two players on defense intercepted a pass all season (Jerametrius Butler with 5 and Travis Fisher with 1). Also, Pro Football Reference's metrics have the Rams ranked as the fourth worst team in the entire league that season. Wow.


They really had the 9-7 Seahawks number beating them 3 times (once in the playoffs) they beat the 13-1 resting starters with 2 weeks to go Eagles (Koy Detmer and Jeff Blake combined to go 5/20 for 46 yards and Dorsey Levens and Reno Mahe were getting carries. The Eagles essentially forfeited after pulling McNabb after 1 series) and then the Jets who were playing desperate football for most of the game.

They're a very strange team in that that offense was absolutely explosive but also astonishingly undisciplined. They scored a surprisingly little amount of points due to penalties, sacks, and turnovers. They led the league in offense drives that ended in a turnover. They had a porous offensive line which gave up a lot of sacks. Still...Holt and Bruce were great players having great years. McDonald and Curtis solid 3 and 4 options. You had Marshall Faulk still, an effective player and a young Steven Jackson playing well. They shot themselves in the foot a lot but had the pure talent to make up for it.

Yes, it's almost as if the prestige that used to be the Greatest Show on Turf dragged the squad to the playoffs in spite of a mountain of weekly mistakes that usually nukes a season. They also got lucky the NFC was so terrible in 2004. But whatever, at the end of they day they got back to the same round in the playoffs their season ended a year prior.
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby racepug » Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:42 am

sheajets wrote:They really had the 9-7 Seahawks number

The Rams have "had the Seahawks' number" from the jump. SEA didn't beat the Rams for the first time until the 1990s and to this day the Seahawks hold the N.F.L. record for fewest yards gained in an N.F.L. game which they "accomplished" against the L.A. Rams in 1979. Interestingly SEA did well against the Rams when the Rams were in St. Louis. But that must've just been a fluke of timing (or something) cuz when the Rams have been based in L.A. they have absolutely OWNED the Seahawks (to this day the Seattle Seahawks have managed only ONE win in L.A. against the Rams). And the Seahawks are winless against the Rams in the playoffs (all playoff games between the two having been played IN Seattle). Funny thing - the Seahawks have ALWAYS struggled (relatively speaking) against the Rams and the Cardinals (another team that the Seahawks didn't beat for the first time until the 1990s). But against the 49ers they've actually done pretty well over the years (matter of fact the very first win in Seattle Seahawks history came against the San Francisco 49ers [albeit in pre-season]). Strange.
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:59 pm

Bryan wrote:Of that same era, I liked the 1989 Packers. They had been bad for so long and they finally started to win. Sharpe was pretty good as a rookie in 1988, but he really broke out in 1989. Don Majikowski and Tim Harris came out of nowhere and had monster seasons. They played so many exciting games and beat the Niners. I can remember thinking that with Lindy Infante as the head coach, the Packers would just continue to win and get better. How wrong I was.

Also liked the 1989 Steelers because of their crazy postseason run of beating Glanville's Oilers and almost knocking off Denver. Again, the Steelers had been bad for the last several years and you thought that they had turned the corner. But what is the quickest way to stop an up-and-coming team? Hire Joe Walton.


I thought the same thing about the Packers. I remember Chris Berman basically saying during the 1990 draft that the Packers' two first-round picks could change the balance of power in the NFC Central. The Packers would eventually control the Central, but not because of those picks.

As for the Steelers, I wonder what would have happened if they keep Tom Moore and don't hire Walton, who tried to re-write the playbook because he wanted to eventually get a new HC job. I think they make the playoffs in 90 (and maybe 91), and maybe Noll doesn't retire then.

Speaking of favorite overachievers, though, the 86 Chiefs may qualify. They got to the WC game with average QBing and no running game to speak of.
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby sheajets » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:48 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
Bryan wrote:Of that same era, I liked the 1989 Packers. They had been bad for so long and they finally started to win. Sharpe was pretty good as a rookie in 1988, but he really broke out in 1989. Don Majikowski and Tim Harris came out of nowhere and had monster seasons. They played so many exciting games and beat the Niners. I can remember thinking that with Lindy Infante as the head coach, the Packers would just continue to win and get better. How wrong I was.

Also liked the 1989 Steelers because of their crazy postseason run of beating Glanville's Oilers and almost knocking off Denver. Again, the Steelers had been bad for the last several years and you thought that they had turned the corner. But what is the quickest way to stop an up-and-coming team? Hire Joe Walton.


I thought the same thing about the Packers. I remember Chris Berman basically saying during the 1990 draft that the Packers' two first-round picks could change the balance of power in the NFC Central. The Packers would eventually control the Central, but not because of those picks.

As for the Steelers, I wonder what would have happened if they keep Tom Moore and don't hire Walton, who tried to re-write the playbook because he wanted to eventually get a new HC job. I think they make the playoffs in 90 (and maybe 91), and maybe Noll doesn't retire then.

Speaking of favorite overachievers, though, the 86 Chiefs may qualify. They got to the WC game with average QBing and no running game to speak of.


And after making the playoffs in his 4th year with the team, Lamar Hunt ends up firing Mackovic. The Chiefs would sink to the NFL's depths the next 2 years with Frank Gansz before bringing in Schottenheimer and turning the franchise around. Never quite understood what happened there with Mackovic or why they'd fire him after a season he overachieved and got them into the playoffs for the first time in 14 years

Even the Levy firing I didn't quite get, he was doing a nice job slowly building them up. 7-9, then 8-8, then 9-7. They took a step back during the weird 1982 campaign but I would've def given Levy some more time in KC
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Re: 1991 Lions and favorite overachievers

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:25 pm

Even the Levy firing I didn't quite get, he was doing a nice job slowly building them up. 7-9, then 8-8, then 9-7. They took a step back during the weird 1982 campaign but I would've def given Levy some more time in KC


I think that Levy had problems with Jack Steadman, the meddlesome president of the team. He was only there because he was Lamar Hunt's roommate at SMU. He was a bean counter, not a football guy.

One example was in 1979. Kay Dalton, the team's passing game coordinator, worked out the QB's. He didn't think that any of them were worth the second overall pick, but he seemed to be more excited about Montana than anyone else:

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/printth ... p?t=276374

However, Steadman got his way, and had the team work out a trade with Houston to move back in Round 1 and take Steve Fuller.
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