Thanksgiving Day Games

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Thanksgiving Day Games
Started by Guest_BigMck_* , Nov 26 2013 04:20 PM

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#1 Guest_BigMck_*
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:20 PM

I remember as far back as the late 1950's, Green Bay and Detroit always played in Detroit on Thanksgiving. I have always assumed the reason was because it was some sort of "Rivalry". I have never considered them Rivals. They are not that close geographically. SInce the merger they do not play every year. How did the two teams originally start playing each other on Thanksgiving?

#2 Teo
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:23 PM

BigMck, on 26 Nov 2013 - 4:20 PM, said:
I remember as far back as the late 1950's, Green Bay and Detroit always played in Detroit on Thanksgiving. I have always assumed the reason was because it was some sort of "Rivalry". I have never considered them Rivals. They are not that close geographically. SInce the merger they do not play every year. How did the two teams originally start playing each other on Thanksgiving?

Well, since the merger one year an AFC team plays at Detroit and the other year at Dallas. I do remember that the Lions played at least twice on Thanksgiving against Chicago (the Dave Williams opening kickoff return on overtime comes to mind).

#3 Kelly1105
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

Ah......... is something missing from the original question because Green Bay and Detriot play twice a year going back to before the merger.

#4 Guest_BigMck_*
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:55 PM

Kelly1105, on 26 Nov 2013 - 4:44 PM, said:
Ah......... is something missing from the original question because Green Bay and Detriot play twice a year going back to before the merger.

I am speaking about Thanksgiving. They always played in Detroit on Thanksgiving and I was just curious how that tradition started. == Never mind. After looking they only played around ten years in late 1950 - early 1960 era. I had thought they played for a long time.

#5 Rupert Patrick
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:33 PM

I think the Lions and Packers meet every other year on Thanksgiving. Seems for most of the last 15 years when Detroit hosts an NFC team on Thanksgiving, it's usually Green Bay. I did go to the Thanksgiving game in Detroit in 1996 where the Lions met the Chiefs.

#6 Reaser
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:50 PM

The last time Detroit played a Thanksgiving game against a NFC team that wasn't the Packers was 2005 against the Falcons.

This will be the 21st Lions-Packers Thanksgiving day game, believe second to that is Lions-Bears with 15.

#7 BD Sullivan
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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:41 PM

The Lions and Packers began 13 straight seasons of playing on Thanksgiving in 1951. Vince Lombardi put an end to the series in June of 1963 (starting with the '64 season), saying the Pack was always at a disadvantage by having to travel the game. He also noted (perhaps why it started in the first place) that beginning with the '61 game, the Packers no longer got $10,000 from the Lions for playing in the game.

In the 1961 game, the Packers got Paul Hornung on a holiday pass (from the Army), supposedly after Lombardi pulled some strings with his Kennedy connections. Also in that game, the Lions actually wore their white jerseys in the game, since they had been winning in those jerseys (much like the '05 Steelers) and a superstitious George Wilson didn't want to change. It didn't help--the Packers won 17-9.

#8 Jagade
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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:57 PM

BD Sullivan, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:41 PM, said:
The Lions and Packers began 13 straight seasons of playing on Thanksgiving in 1951. Vince Lombardi put an end to the series in June of 1963 (starting with the '64 season), saying the Pack was always at a disadvantage by having to travel the game. He also noted (perhaps why it started in the first place) that beginning with the '61 game, the Packers no longer got $10,000 from the Lions for playing in the game.
In the 1961 game, the Packers got Paul Hornung on a holiday pass (from the Army), supposedly after Lombardi pulled some strings with his Kennedy connections. Also in that game, the Lions actually wore their white jerseys in the game, since they had been winning in those jerseys (much like the '05 Steelers) and a superstitious George Wilson didn't want to change. It didn't help--the Packers won 17-9.

Having the home field on Thanksgiving Day is an advantage, but it also gives the team an edge in their following game, getting 3 extra days to prepare and help get over those nagging injuries as well as the little bumps and bruises.

I know that Detroit won some big games during the 1950's in their games following Thanksgiving, which helped win some championships, and it also helped Dallas a number of times later on, IMO.

Detroit had a nice thing going during the 1950's with usually a game they could count on winning against a usually not so good Green Bay team and a nice rest before their next game. One exception was getting upset by Green Bay in 1956, but they blasted the Chicago Bears in the next game, 42 to 10, which put them in first place at the time.

#9 John Grasso
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Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:19 AM

But the other side of the coin is that they are playing on Thanksgiving with only 3 days of rest since the previous Sunday's game.

Having the home field on Thanksgiving Day is an advantage, but it also gives the team an edge in their following game, getting 3 extra days to prepare and help get over those nagging injuries as well as the little bumps and bruises.

I think, given a choice, that most, if not all teams, would prefer a regular schedule with games at the same time on the same day of the week.

#10 Halas Hall
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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

I think the tradition of the Detroit Lions playing on Thanksgiving Day came from Portsmouth / Ironton, Ohio. My understanding is that Lions owner Dick Richards was brainstorming on ideas to increase the number of paying customers in Detroit and a player mentioned they had played on Thanksgiving in Ohio and had gotten a decent turnout, so they started scheduling a Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit.

#11 Jagade
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Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:33 PM

John Grasso, on 28 Nov 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:
But the other side of the coin is that they are playing on Thanksgiving with only 3 days of rest since the previous Sunday's game.
Having the home field on Thanksgiving Day is an advantage, but it also gives the team an edge in their following game, getting 3 extra days to prepare and help get over those nagging injuries as well as the little bumps and bruises.
I think, given a choice, that most, if not all teams, would prefer a regular schedule with games at the same time on the same day of the week.

Maybe some players feel that way, but I would think that most teams (coaches, owners, GM's and other office people) would rather play at home on Thanksgiving Day if they felt that it gave their team an advantage in 2 games in a row.

Al Davis (Oakland owner) complained about Dallas getting preferential treatment by getting that nice break after Thanksgiving late in the season every year.

#12 74_75_78_79_
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:47 AM

It seems as if the same few teams rotate around amongst one another to play a Thanksgiving Game and it's usually against the same team - ex. Green Bay playing Detroit, Washington playing Dallas. What teams have yet to play either team on Thanksgiving; or have gone a real significant long time without? The Chargers come to mind - don't recall a Turkey Day date with either team. And not counting 2011 (night game), same with San Fran. How about Rams? Browns? Bengals? Bills? Broncos?

Eagles...of course I'm aware of the Bounty Bowl at Dallas in '89, but I never at all remember them in Detroit; nor ever again in Dallas. Same with Cards - not counting that odd pairing with Miami in '77, I remember them at Dallas once in '85, but never a date at Detroit. I'm thinking of opposite examples, but the two common teams whom play at Detroit - GB & Chi - have also been at Big D.

This new T-Day NIGHT format? Will the same team eventually, traditionally host that very third game every year? Or will it simply stay at 'any' two teams? As for Pittsburgh...maybe they should never play Thanksgiving Day ever again. I do remember the Detroit Massacre of '83 (stars from the '70s Era still onboard), Chuck Noll in his final season vs Jimmy Johnson in '91 (actually didn't give Dallas a bad game considering their struggles that season), the OT game at Detroit 7 years later that started the (if however brief) downward spiral in the Cowher Era, and now last night?? And then hearing, last night before the game, that they haven't won since 1950! Yeah, Steelers stay home Thanksgiving from now on. I got an idea - let the night game be Cardinals at Chicago every year, for old times sake. A way of staging two of the most oldest franchises in the league and didn't they have quite the Turkey Day tradition way back when both teams were in town?

#13 Mark Durr
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:00 AM

According to this New York Times piece by Samantha Storey, she points to research by Saleem Choudhry at the Pro Football Hall of Fame which indicates the original Thanksgiving Day game (Chicago @ Detroit) was a publicity move by Lions owner George Richards to garner attention towards his team (and away from the more popular Detroit Tigers). He worked a deal with NBC radio to broadcast the game nationally.

http://www.nytimes.c...mes-photos.html

There's a slide show accompanying the article. According to the caption of a photograph from that first game in 1934, Detroit would travel to Chicago the Sunday after Thanksgiving to play the Bears, losing to them twice in three days!

#14 conace21
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:24 AM

Off the top of my head, the Bills played in Detroit in 1976 and 1994, losing both times. OJ Simpson set the single game rushing record on Thanksgiving. The Broncos played in Dallas in 2001, wearing their Orange Crush uniforms. I only remember the year because Dallas was starting Ryan Leaf. Denver jumped out to a 26-3 lead before Dallas scored three times to make it 26-24. It was probably Leaf's best game as a Cowboy.

I think the third game will always be on a rotating basis. Lamar Hunt was always trying to break up the Dallas-Detroit stranglehold on Thanksgiving. Adding the third game seemed to be a concession.

#15 Teo
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:43 PM

The Broncos also played (and won) at Dallas, led by Ron Dayne in Thanksgiving 2005.

It's interesting that the Raiders played two "straight" Thanksgiving in Dallas (2009 and 2013) as well as the Broncos. I don't get why the fans at the stadiums at Denver and Oakland won't watch the Cowboys at least another four years. And I thought that with eight division each four or eight years every interconference rival would play in their home turf.

#16 rhickok1109
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:28 PM

Certainly a major factor, ignored in the Times article, was that college Thanksgiving day games (which began in 1876 with Yale and Princeton playing in New York City) drew big crowds and raked in a lot of money.

#17 JWL
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:29 PM
Teo, on 29 Nov 2013 - 2:43 PM, said:

The Broncos also played (and won) at Dallas, led by Ron Dayne in Thanksgiving 2005.

It's interesting that the Raiders played two "straight" Thanksgiving in Dallas (2009 and 2013) as well as the Broncos. I don't get why the fans at the stadiums at Denver and Oakland won't watch the Cowboys at least another four years. And I thought that with eight division each four or eight years every interconference rival would play in their home turf.

The league made a change a few years ago so that teams would not make trips to San Diego and Oakland in the same season. For instance, the Patriots and Jets, in years when facing the entire AFC West now will not have to travel to both San Diego and Oakland in the same year. Same thing with the NFC West. Those teams will not go to San Francisco and Seattle in the same year.

In 2017, the Cowboys will go to Oakland.

#18 74_75_78_79_
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:35 PM
Steelers hosted the Cardinals and played at Seattle in '03 yet it never flipped back to that in 2011. I guess the Cards will return to the 'Burgh in 2015 while the Steelers themselves that year will finally return to Qwest and deal with the 12th Man at it ALL-TIME loudest for such obvious reasons!

(WHY am I still not able to quote anyone on this site as of late?? If anyone here knows a readjustment I need to make on my PC, please fill me in. Thanks.)

#19 3243
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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:13 PM
Along with the then-St. Louis Cardinals hosting Thanksgiving games against Buffalo in 1975 and Miami in 1977 (with the Cardinals playing the role of Thanksgiving turkey on both occasions--spiced by an epic brawl with the Dolphins in 1977), the New York Titans hosted the AFL's first two Thanksgiving games in 1960-61, then the Denver Broncos hosted the league's 1962-63 Thanksgiving games, then the San Diego Chargers took over the next two, then the Buffalo Bills hosted 1966.

From 1967-69, both leagues had Thanksgiving Day doubleheaders, with all games played at different times, giving gridiron viewers a Thanksgiving quadruple-header during each of those three years. Here they are:

1967 Los Angeles @ Detroit
" Oakland @ Kansas City
" Denver @ San Diego
" St. Louis @ Dallas

1968 Philadelphia @ Detroit (great mud game)
" Houston @ Kansas City
" Buffalo @ Oakland
" Washington @ Dallas

1969 Minnesota @ Detroit (another memorable snow-and-mud extravaganza)
" Denver @ Kansas City
" San Diego @ Houston
" San Francisco @ Dallas

And as you see, Kansas City hosted AFL Thanksgiving games during the league's final three seasons.

#20 BD Sullivan
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Posted 30 November 2013 - 01:54 AM

74_75_78_79_, on 29 Nov 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:
Eagles...of course I'm aware of the Bounty Bowl at Dallas in '89, but I never at all remember them in Detroit; nor ever again in Dallas. Same with Cards - not counting that odd pairing with Miami in '77, I remember them at Dallas once in '85, but never a date at Detroit. I'm thinking of opposite examples, but the two common teams whom play at Detroit - GB & Chi - have also been at Big D.
The Eagles played in Detroit on Thanksgiving (their only time) in 1968, entering the game with a sparkling 0-11 record--which, at the time, made them the favorite to draft O.J Simpson. The Lions weren't much better at 3-6-2, and the game lived down to expectations. The Eagles won in the slop of Tiger Stadium by a 12-0 score--the Eagles kicked one field goal in each quarter.

The Chiefs were supposed to host Denver in a Thanksgiving game in 1963, but the JFK assassination caused the AFL to blow up the remaining schedule. For that year's game, the Broncos hosted the Raiders in a game that was supposed to have been played the previous Sunday.

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#21 74_75_78_79_
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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:31 AM

Yeah, Eagles beating Detroit that Thanksgiving Day in '68 is what started their end of the year winning streak which cost them OJ which would then cause Philly fans to boo and throw snowballs at Santa, lol.

#22 luckyshow
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Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:05 PM

Princeton v Yale at Thanksgivings Day was played in New York through the mid 1890s. One game at Manhattan Field in 1891 set attendance records for the time (40,000 paid and thousands watching for free from cliffs above). Overflowing crowds came. To the first Polo Grounds, to Berkeley Oval one year, to later Polo Grounds...

In 1900 & 1901, Columbia played Carlisle in the big Thanksgivings Day game, in 1902 they played Syracuse in a Turkey Day game at the Polo Grounds. Columbia played 5 Turkey Day games at the Polo Grounds in 1920s, 4 against Syracuse. Then three more T-Day games against the Saltine Warriors at their new stadium in later 20s. In the 1930s, Fordham and NYU played Thanksgivings Day games at Yankee Stadium against crowds up to 80,000..

College was king, but set the tradition...

The New York Giants and Staten Island Stapletons played 4 Thanksgivings Day games when the Stapes were in the NFL. and three games in the years before the Stapes were in the NFL. All were played in Staten Island.

The Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers played 6 Turkey Day games in 1930s at Ebbets Field. While the Giants were still playing Stapleton on T-Day, the Dodgers hosted Providence and Green Bay on two of those days.

They played the Yankees in the AAFC on Thanksgiving's Day 1946, hosted the 49ers the next year on the day. The Cleveland Browns played three away Thankksgivings Day games in the AAFC.

In 1952 the Dallas Texans "hosted" the Bears at Akron on Thanksgivings, winning their sole game.
In 1960, the New York Titans hosted the Dallas Texans in the first AFL Thanksgivings Day game, winning 41-35 before a purported crowd of over 14,000 at the Polo Grounds. The Titans would beat Buffalo in the 2nd such game in 1961 before 12,000, and played at Denver in the third turkey game in 1962.

The Los Angeles Dons hosted three straight AAFC Turkey Day games, Chicago two (the AAFC had two such games each year)

The Akron Pros hosted 4, played in 6, on Thanksgivings....Frankford Yellow jackets hosted 6..

The first pro football championship game in New York, at Yankee Stadium, Thanksgivings Day 11/25/1926 Philadelphia Quakers 13-0 New York Yankees, was before 22,000 (first AFL) Columbia also played Syracuse that day at the Polo Grounds. The Stapes hosted the Bethlehem Bears...

#23 BD Sullivan
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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

luckyshow, on 02 Dec 2013 - 1:05 PM, said:
The Cleveland Browns played three away Thankksgivings Day games in the AAFC.
In 1948, their Thanksgiving game was the midpoint of a brutal eight-day stretch:

11/21: Beat the NY Yankees in NY, 34-21
11/25: Beat the LA Dons in LA, 31-14
11/28: Beat the SF 49ers, 31-28

They ended up going 14-0 during the regular season, then winning their third straight AAFC title with a 49-7 win over Buffalo.

#24 fgoodwin
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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:23 PM

For years I've heard the complaint that hosting a Thanksgiving Day game gave Dallas an advantage both on Thanksgiving and the following week (due to having the intervening weekend off). And I've always responded that, if that were the case, why doesn't Detroit have a better record hosting Thanksgiving Day games? And if Dallas does better than average the following week, does that hold for Detroit also?

If playing in the Thanksgiving Day game gives Dallas and Detroit an advantage the following week, do their opponents (as a group) also do better the following week? After all, they also benefit from having the intervening weekend off.

#25 Jagade
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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:10 AM

fgoodwin, on 02 Dec 2013 - 5:23 PM, said:
For years I've heard the complaint that hosting a Thanksgiving Day game gave Dallas an advantage both on Thanksgiving and the following week (due to having the intervening weekend off). And I've always responded that, if that were the case, why doesn't Detroit have a better record hosting Thanksgiving Day games? And if Dallas does better than average the following week, does that hold for Detroit also?
If playing in the Thanksgiving Day game gives Dallas and Detroit an advantage the following week, do their opponents (as a group) also do better the following week? After all, they also benefit from having the intervening weekend off.

Detroit did pretty well in those 2 games during their championship years (1952-57), losing only once on Thanksgiving (1956) and once in their following game (1955, losing to the Bears at Wrigley. The Bears were always tough at Wrigley and 1955 was Detroit's worst season of the 1950's, finishing in last place with a 3 and 9 record. Also, the Lions were out of the running for the Western Conference title when they played Chicago in that game).

Of course, following 1957, Detroit was mostly a not very good team for the next 50 years or so (the curse of Bobby Layne?).

As for the other teams that played Dallas and Detroit, I have never tried to look up how the teams did overall in their next games after Thanksgiving, but I suspect that in many games, they did very well, especially if their next games were at home.

#26 Reaser
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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:47 AM

fgoodwin, on 02 Dec 2013 - 5:23 PM, said:
And I've always responded that, if that were the case, why doesn't Detroit have a better record hosting Thanksgiving Day games?
It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, years the Lions/Cowboys are good it's an advantage, years when they're bad it doesn't matter.

Kind of like when people say a team is good on the road. e.g. the '72 Dolphins were a good road team.

or like with the Seahawks home field advantage, it's a great home field advantage in years when the team is good, but what about the seasons when the team is bad or just average? No one talks about the seasons they won one game at home, or recent times when they were 2-6 at home, or 4-4 at home.

If a team finishes 14-2 then they have a great home field advantage AND they're good away from home, or you know, they're just a good team, period. So when the Cowboys are good then they're good at home on Thanksgiving.

#27 SixtiesFan
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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:15 AM

fgoodwin, on 02 Dec 2013 - 5:23 PM, said:
For years I've heard the complaint that hosting a Thanksgiving Day game gave Dallas an advantage both on Thanksgiving and the following week (due to having the intervening weekend off). And I've always responded that, if that were the case, why doesn't Detroit have a better record hosting Thanksgiving Day games? And if Dallas does better than average the following week, does that hold for Detroit also?
If playing in the Thanksgiving Day game gives Dallas and Detroit an advantage the following week, do their opponents (as a group) also do better the following week? After all, they also benefit from having the intervening weekend off.

I've read that Tex Schramm thought playing on Thanksgiving Day gave the Cowboys an advantage. Schramm also liked the extra TV exposure.

#28 Chrisskreager
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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:04 PM

Surprising that the Giants have only played Dallas once on Thanksgiving- 1992.

I understand NYG-DAL is made for primetime, but still!

#29 Jagade
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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:48 PM

Art Modell got suckered into having Cleveland play Dallas in the Cowboy's first Thanksgiving Day game in 1966, and it might have cost the Browns a spot in the NFL championship game that year. Cleveland lost to Dallas that day, which was the first loss to Dallas since 1962, even though Cleveland played Dallas twice a year (home and away) since 1961, and it was only the second time they had ever lost to the Cowboys.

The loss virtually eliminated Cleveland in the Eastern Conference race, even though they had a chance if Dallas lost most of their remaining games, which wasn't going to happen.

The Browns, knowing that their season was gone, staggered through their next two games, and were almost upset by a terrible Giants team, but managed to pull out a victory in spite of not playing very well, and then lost to Philadelphia, who even though they had a winning record that year, were not really one of the better teams in the league.


#30 nicefellow31
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Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:45 AM

Chrisskreager, on 04 Dec 2013 - 8:04 PM, said:
Surprising that the Giants have only played Dallas once on Thanksgiving- 1992.

I understand NYG-DAL is made for primetime, but still!
The Philadelphia Eagles have played Dallas once in 1989 in the Bounty Bowl. On the flip side, fellow division rival, the Washington Redskins have played 7 times in Dallas on Thanksgiving Day. I'm a Skins fan and was surprised to see the lack of Turkey Day games in Dallas for fellow division opponents.

Also found this bit of info while on Wikipedia.
Quote
Rule changes in the 2012–2022 television contracts will permit "flex scheduling" of the Detroit/Dallas afternoon rotation. It would allow the Lions or the Cowboys to host the prime time game rather than their traditional afternoon slots. In such a case, CBS would be permitted to schedule an AFC vs. AFC game in their afternoon time slot.

How is that going to work? Not sure if that is correct.

#31 BD Sullivan
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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:04 PM
Since 1989:

Teams 10/11 days after playing Detroit on T-Giving: 16-8 (12-5 at home)
Teams 10/11 days after playing Dallas on T-Giving: 11-13 (7-5 at home)

#32 TouchdownTimmy
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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:27 PM

During the NFL's first decade and a half many teams played a three games in eight days slate Thanksgiving week. The Chicago Bears played annually on Sunday, Thanskgiving, then the following Sunday (Remember Red Grange's first game was played on Thanksgiving Day 1925).

If you look in the records you will find many Thanksgivings back then with a pretty good slate of games. No one really thought about the health and welfare of the players I guess.

#33 rhickok1109
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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:12 PM

TouchdownTimmy, on 05 Dec 2013 - 1:27 PM, said:
During the NFL's first decade and a half many teams played a three games in eight days slate Thanksgiving week. The Chicago Bears played annually on Sunday, Thanskgiving, then the following Sunday (Remember Red Grange's first game was played on Thanksgiving Day 1925).

If you look in the records you will find many Thanksgivings back then with a pretty good slate of games. No one really thought about the health and welfare of the players I guess.
In 1926, the Duluth Eskimos played five games in eight days.

#34 Jay Z
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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:45 AM

TouchdownTimmy, on 05 Dec 2013 - 1:27 PM, said:
During the NFL's first decade and a half many teams played a three games in eight days slate Thanksgiving week. The Chicago Bears played annually on Sunday, Thanskgiving, then the following Sunday (Remember Red Grange's first game was played on Thanksgiving Day 1925).

If you look in the records you will find many Thanksgivings back then with a pretty good slate of games. No one really thought about the health and welfare of the players I guess.

In 1939 the Eagles played the Pirates (future Steelers) on Thanksgiving. Both teams were winless at the time (Eagles 0-7-1, Steelers 0-8-1.) After the Eagles won in Philadelphia, the same teams played again in Pittsburgh on Sunday. Not the following Sunday, but three days later!

Seems odd, since both teams had multiple "bye" weeks earlier in the season. Why cram three games into eight days later in the year?

#35 TouchdownTimmy
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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:49 PM

rhickok1109, on 05 Dec 2013 - 3:12 PM, said:
In 1926, the Duluth Eskimos played five games in eight days.

That's just crazy. Back in 2002 when we had the sniper attacks here in Maryland and Virginia many of the high schools canceled tehir games until the culprit was arrested. This caused them to have to play two games a week in order to complete their schedules. If I recall it sort of went Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday or something along those lines. My old school got into the playoffs undefeated and got waxed the first game by a school that played a normal one game a week sched.

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