How do you count All-Pros?

How do you count All-Pros?

Postby TanksAndSpartans » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:20 am

In a discussion about Jan Stenerud, it came up that he was a 1 time All-Pro. Check the upper right in PFR:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/stenejan01.htm

But, when you scroll down and look at his postseason honors, there are organizations that named him All-Pro in many seasons. PFJ has him as a 6-time All-Pro:

https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-greatest-kickers-of-all-time-post.html

But I can't even tell which 6 seasons PFJ is counting looking at the long list in PFR.

So, should it be 6 or 1 or something in between? Thanks for any help.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby Reaser » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:15 pm

If you can find it via search you should be able to find the many discussions we've had on All-Pros. Though, I believe most were on the old forum.

Short version, PFR only counts the AP for it's "upper right", which is an incomplete way to do it but their choice.

PFJ, presumably (since Turney and I were the two posting most about "AP Only" mistaken thinking on the old forum, in agreement) and in a more correct presentation: 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1974, 1984 the six years he was 1st-team "All" by a major selector. Easy to see.

Not really a matter of "should it be" this or that, it's more what it is. The information is there.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby TanksAndSpartans » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:42 pm

Thanks Matt. I appreciate it.

I wouldn't have known how to distinguish major. '74 he just has Newspaper Ent. Assoc. for example.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby Reaser » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:57 pm

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Matt. I appreciate it.

I wouldn't have known how to distinguish major. '74 he just has Newspaper Ent. Assoc. for example.


NEA was voted on by players. They teamed up with CBS in the late 60s to have an awards show, similar to how the NFL and AP have the "NFL Honors" show now.

Edit: Tried to look up past threads on this for you, the search function here ... well, everyone knows how well that works. Tried google and John actually wrote about it. Which is basically exactly what you would have read in a forum post on the old forums. So give this a look, explains it well.

https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... wards.html
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby Ken Crippen » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:17 pm

Personally, I would list ALL all-pro honors and by which organization.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby rhickok1109 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:27 am

Reaser wrote:
TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Matt. I appreciate it.

I wouldn't have known how to distinguish major. '74 he just has Newspaper Ent. Assoc. for example.


NEA was voted on by players. They teamed up with CBS in the late 60s to have an awards show, similar to how the NFL and AP have the "NFL Honors" show now.

Edit: Tried to look up past threads on this for you, the search function here ... well, everyone knows how well that works. Tried google and John actually wrote about it. Which is basically exactly what you would have read in a forum post on the old forums. So give this a look, explains it well.

https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... wards.html

I've long had my doubts about Murray Olderman's claim that players voted on the NEA all-Pro team.

As a sports editor in Ohio 1961-63, I asked a very large number of the Cleveland Browns about it and none of them could remember ever receiving any kind of ballot from NEA.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby RichardBak » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:02 pm

rhickok1109 wrote:
Reaser wrote:
TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Matt. I appreciate it.

I wouldn't have known how to distinguish major. '74 he just has Newspaper Ent. Assoc. for example.


NEA was voted on by players. They teamed up with CBS in the late 60s to have an awards show, similar to how the NFL and AP have the "NFL Honors" show now.

Edit: Tried to look up past threads on this for you, the search function here ... well, everyone knows how well that works. Tried google and John actually wrote about it. Which is basically exactly what you would have read in a forum post on the old forums. So give this a look, explains it well.

https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... wards.html

I've long had my doubts about Murray Olderman's claim that players voted on the NEA all-Pro team.

As a sports editor in Ohio 1961-63, I asked a very large number of the Cleveland Browns about it and none of them could remember ever receiving any kind of ballot from NEA.


You have to wonder if some club employee didn't fill them out and send them back. Kind of like the batboy scrawling some player's signature on a box of "autographed" baseballs or some flunky in the PR dept. voting in the weekly coaches college poll.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby rhickok1109 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:34 pm

RichardBak wrote:You have to wonder if some club employee didn't fill them out and send them back. Kind of like the batboy scrawling some player's signature on a box of "autographed" baseballs or some flunky in the PR dept. voting in the weekly coaches college poll.

A childhood friend of mine, Johnny Gordon, who designed the original Packer logo, autographed countless footballs when he was an assistant equipment manager with the Packers while attending college. John told me that Hornung was the only player who always signed; Bart Starr did only occasionally and Lombardi never did. An artist, John was pretty well skilled at forging autographs. He got quite a bit of publicity a few years ago when somebody was trying to sell a Lombardi-autographed football for something like $10,000 and John intervened to say that it was actually one of his forgeries.
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Re: How do you count All-Pros?

Postby Ronfitch » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:18 pm

Reaser wrote:
TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Matt. I appreciate it.

I wouldn't have known how to distinguish major. '74 he just has Newspaper Ent. Assoc. for example.


NEA was voted on by players. They teamed up with CBS in the late 60s to have an awards show, similar to how the NFL and AP have the "NFL Honors" show now.

Edit: Tried to look up past threads on this for you, the search function here ... well, everyone knows how well that works. Tried google and John actually wrote about it. Which is basically exactly what you would have read in a forum post on the old forums. So give this a look, explains it well.

https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... wards.html


Again, we need a "Like" button on this forum.

Thanks, Matt and John.
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