Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

User avatar
74_75_78_79_
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:25 pm

Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by 74_75_78_79_ »

Bill Kenney...four-straight games in '83, Wks #12-thru-#15, passing for more than 300 yards each time, yet each one a loss! The first of those, a lopsided loss at Dallas. Bill sort-or rallying Chiefs back late, cutting the Cowboys' 27-0 lead to 27-14 with two TDs to Carlos Carson. But then Big D puts in the dagger with back-to-back TDs of their own. The following week at playoff-bound Seattle, perhaps, his best statistical showing! Over 400 yards in passing in this case with four passing TDs, zero INTs, and two rushing TDs only to lose it in OT, 51-48! Next up, Week #14, mustering just nine points (3 Lowery FGs) at home vs a stumbling Bills team (again, passing for more than 300)! And the last of those weeks, Bill again playing a great game out-dueling Dan Fouts statistically at the Murph - but again all for naught! It would be his only Pro Bowl year as well as setting some team records with 346 completions and 4,348 yards, albeit that being done in...603 attempts (nothing to jump up-and-down too much about). His best game, which resulted in victory, would have to be the '85 opener at NO vs Phillips & Phillips putting up 47 points, going 22/34 for 397 yards, 3TDs, 1INT (no rushing attempts, strictly a passing effort).

Could you possibly say that '81 was Bill's best year instead? 8-5 as a starter and those three-straight defeats that they suffered, Wks #13-thru-#15, he of course was out for the latter two of those (as well as the finale at Minn which they won). But at Denver and then home against Miami, no guarantee at all that they win either or both of those games with Kenney instead of Fuller. What really hurt Kenney and KC-in-general was Levy wrongly getting fired, and then tragically losing Delaney, following the '82 campaign along with not really having a solid OL - and, of course, his injuries. Despite that Pro Bowl year of his in '83, did that run-game ever go limp! He had to carry that offense to whatever respectability it had.

But there were better options. Forget my Steelers, KC has their very own Marino-what-if as well! And Todd Blackledge (who, apparently, Mackovic really wanted over Dan - and got) was never going to make it yet alone take Bill's job. Usually the 1st-Rd QB picked eventually 'automatically' gets the job no matter what. But not this case which is a true testimony to just how struggle-some Todd's pro career turned out to be. Albeit not at all a game-manager in college (not at all; that'd be the case with the next National Champion PSU QB), Blackledge was a Joe Paterno QB, so coming up short in the NFL shouldn't have been a shocker. Todd was simply never able to take advantage of any window-openings due to Kenney's injuries. However, like Ryan Leaf after him, Blackledge did have himself a FWIW 2-0 start to begin the season in '84. And he and Kenney each posted 5-3 marks as starters in that famous 'island' 10-6 playoff season. Kenney, of course, was the better QB of the two when healthy. But though, IMO, Chiefs play better against the Jets with Bill at QB, I still don't think they pull it off or make it a nail-biter anyway.

The Chiefs would have made numerous playoff berths even before '86 had Levy not been let go. And even better if Delaney would have averted that tragedy. And then drafting Marino instead...(Super Bowls, sure enough)...

Deron Cherry & Gary Green…5 All Pros apiece yet neither one in Canton.
7DnBrnc53
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

74_75, you come up with some good topics, and this is another one. Not too much focus on the late-70's and 80's Chiefs before Marty.

With the KC QB situation, you have to go back to 1978 and 79. In the 1978 draft, the Chiefs used their first three draft picks on defensive players (Art Still, Sylvester Hicks, and Gary Spani). Jack Steadman was upset that they didn't draft a franchise QB, but there really wasn't one available except for Guy Benjamin in Round 2 (I don't know much about him, or how good he could have been. I do know this: Tony Hill, former Cowboy WR who played at Stanford, said that Benjamin was the second best QB he ever played with only behind Staubach).

Then, the next year, their QB coach (Kay Dalton) was scouting some of the rookies. He came back saying that he liked one certain guy (you can probably guess who I am talking about) over a lot of the others. However, Steadman was adamant on getting that franchise QB, and they had Steve Fuller rated as the best QB left at that point. He didn't want them passing on Fuller, so they traded back into the first round with the Oilers to get him.

That turned out to be a mistake, as he was beaten out by Kenney the next year (the Kyle Orton of 1980).

In 1981, they did start 8-5, but they had that loss to Miami at home that may have been the pivotal loss of Levy's career (don't know for sure. Just conjecture). Not only was Kenney missing, but Joe Delaney didn't play in most of that game due to injury. Had they had both of those guys, they have a good chance of winning that game at home against an overachieving Miami team.

Then, after a disappointing 1982 (when that jerk Steadman unfairly forced Levy out), they pass on Marino for Blackledge. I was on a KC fan's site once, and he said that they had Marino at Arrowhead for a pre-draft workout. Apparently, he was swearing at people, so they drafted the more polite Blackledge (also, the drug rumors had a lot to do with why he dropped. That scared away a lot of teams, right or wrong).

Levy was starting to turn that team around. I wonder what would have happened if he was given one more year by Lamar Hunt (that's what he should have one on that one, not deferring to that jerk), and if they take Marino or Kelly (I don't know why they had Blackledge over Kelly. They aren't much smarter than Pedo Joe, who wanted to move Kelly to LB in college).

One more thing: By 1985, they should have made a decision on Blackledge. Either trade him, and fully commit to Kenney, or trade Bill and build the offense around Todd. Don't know why they didn't do that (looking back, I would have traded Todd and drafted Randall Cunningham, with Kenney as the short-term stopgap).
sheajets
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:22 am

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by sheajets »

7DnBrnc53 wrote:74_75, you come up with some good topics, and this is another one. Not too much focus on the late-70's and 80's Chiefs before Marty.

With the KC QB situation, you have to go back to 1978 and 79. In the 1978 draft, the Chiefs used their first three draft picks on defensive players (Art Still, Sylvester Hicks, and Gary Spani). Jack Steadman was upset that they didn't draft a franchise QB, but there really wasn't one available except for Guy Benjamin in Round 2 (I don't know much about him, or how good he could have been. I do know this: Tony Hill, former Cowboy WR who played at Stanford, said that Benjamin was the second best QB he ever played with only behind Staubach).

Then, the next year, their QB coach (Kay Dalton) was scouting some of the rookies. He came back saying that he liked one certain guy (you can probably guess who I am talking about) over a lot of the others. However, Steadman was adamant on getting that franchise QB, and they had Steve Fuller rated as the best QB left at that point. He didn't want them passing on Fuller, so they traded back into the first round with the Oilers to get him.

That turned out to be a mistake, as he was beaten out by Kenney the next year (the Kyle Orton of 1980).

In 1981, they did start 8-5, but they had that loss to Miami at home that may have been the pivotal loss of Levy's career (don't know for sure. Just conjecture). Not only was Kenney missing, but Joe Delaney didn't play in most of that game due to injury. Had they had both of those guys, they have a good chance of winning that game at home against an overachieving Miami team.

Then, after a disappointing 1982 (when that jerk Steadman unfairly forced Levy out), they pass on Marino for Blackledge. I was on a KC fan's site once, and he said that they had Marino at Arrowhead for a pre-draft workout. Apparently, he was swearing at people, so they drafted the more polite Blackledge (also, the drug rumors had a lot to do with why he dropped. That scared away a lot of teams, right or wrong).

Levy was starting to turn that team around. I wonder what would have happened if he was given one more year by Lamar Hunt (that's what he should have one on that one, not deferring to that jerk), and if they take Marino or Kelly (I don't know why they had Blackledge over Kelly. They aren't much smarter than Pedo Joe, who wanted to move Kelly to LB in college).

One more thing: By 1985, they should have made a decision on Blackledge. Either trade him, and fully commit to Kenney, or trade Bill and build the offense around Todd. Don't know why they didn't do that (looking back, I would have traded Todd and drafted Randall Cunningham, with Kenney as the short-term stopgap).

And I have no doubt it was Don Shula fueling those rumors so he'd drop to him
7DnBrnc53
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

And I have no doubt it was Don Shula fueling those rumors so he'd drop to him
It may have been. The only people interested in Marino that I know of were Ernie Accorsi (he wanted a pick in the top-10 that year so he could draft Marino), Bills GM Norm Pollom (he had Marino rated third behind Elway and Kelly), and Shula.
User avatar
74_75_78_79_
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:25 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by 74_75_78_79_ »

Being a Penn St football fan, I would have really liked to see Blackledge be among the top dogs of the Class of '83, and especially so as a Steeler - taking over for Terry! But the closest it came to that was he ending his career as Brister's backup in '88 & '89. Albeit bad stats/47.2 rating, Todd was at the wheel for that 17-7 revenge win at the Dawg Pound, Week #6 of '89, with Bernie Kosar putting up an even weaker output with 4 INTs and a...9.5 rating (of course with the help of lights-out Steeler-D)!! Then the following week its off-to-the-slaughter-house at the House of Pain, Blackledge suffering a 27-0 defeat in his last ever NFL start.
BD Sullivan
Posts: 2318
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:30 pm

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by BD Sullivan »

When Bill Walsh (who also needed a QB in the 79 draft) went to Clemson to work Fuller out, they needed a receiver--so Fuller's teammate Dwight Clark was picked or volunteered. Walsh obviously wasn't all that impressed with Fuller, since he ended up settling for some QB from Notre Dame in the third round...
User avatar
GameBeforeTheMoney
Posts: 576
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:21 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by GameBeforeTheMoney »

Yeah, I was recently doing a project that required looking up 4,000 yard passing seasons and admittedly shook my head when I saw Kenney's name pop up. I did not remember him having that kind of season.

Coach Levy once told me that Ralph Wilson called Lamar Hunt before Wilson hired Levy. Wilson asked why he was fired and Hunt said that he felt it was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made.

Blackledge coming out of college, he had just led Penn State to a national championship, I think. What I remember for sure is there was a lot of buzz about him in the media. That draft is one of the first that I have a fair memory of the players in college, and I while remember Marino playing at Pitt and the notion that he was an excellent quarterback, John Elway was certainly the #1 star of that draft. It seemed like (at least in my memory) that there was more talk about Blackledge than Marino after the national championship. I think Penn State was in the Sugar Bowl that year? Correct me if I'm wrong (I was 11 or 12 so my memory is a bit fuzzy about it all), but I remember they were in a big bowl game and it was a huge college football matchup for its time. Might have even been a #1 vs 2 matchup. Anyway, Penn State won with Blackledge and his stock was really high. Now, had Sherrill stayed at Pitt and they kept rolling with only 1 loss per year -- or if everybody graduates the year before after another 11-1 Pitt season -- does Marino go higher? Quite possibly.
Podcast: https://Podcast.TheGameBeforeTheMoney.com

Website/Blog: https://TheGameBeforeTheMoney.com

Author's Name: Jackson Michael
Gary Najman
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:24 pm
Location: Mexico City, Mexico

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by Gary Najman »

BD Sullivan wrote:When Bill Walsh (who also needed a QB in the 79 draft) went to Clemson to work Fuller out, they needed a receiver--so Fuller's teammate Dwight Clark was picked or volunteered. Walsh obviously wasn't all that impressed with Fuller, since he ended up settling for some QB from Notre Dame in the third round...
The 49ers didn't had a 1st or 2nd round (courtesy of O.J. Simpson) but they had two 3rd, Montana ws the second pick, the first was RB James Owens, who played mostly with Tampa Bay in the early 80s.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I think that the 49ers would have drafted Fuller or even Jack Thompson at QB if they had the top overall pick they traded to the Bills for O.J.
Gary Najman
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:24 pm
Location: Mexico City, Mexico

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by Gary Najman »

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote:Yeah, I was recently doing a project that required looking up 4,000 yard passing seasons and admittedly shook my head when I saw Kenney's name pop up. I did not remember him having that kind of season.

Coach Levy once told me that Ralph Wilson called Lamar Hunt before Wilson hired Levy. Wilson asked why he was fired and Hunt said that he felt it was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made.

Blackledge coming out of college, he had just led Penn State to a national championship, I think. What I remember for sure is there was a lot of buzz about him in the media. That draft is one of the first that I have a fair memory of the players in college, and I while remember Marino playing at Pitt and the notion that he was an excellent quarterback, John Elway was certainly the #1 star of that draft. It seemed like (at least in my memory) that there was more talk about Blackledge than Marino after the national championship. I think Penn State was in the Sugar Bowl that year? Correct me if I'm wrong (I was 11 or 12 so my memory is a bit fuzzy about it all), but I remember they were in a big bowl game and it was a huge college football matchup for its time. Might have even been a #1 vs 2 matchup. Anyway, Penn State won with Blackledge and his stock was really high. Now, had Sherrill stayed at Pitt and they kept rolling with only 1 loss per year -- or if everybody graduates the year before after another 11-1 Pitt season -- does Marino go higher? Quite possibly.
The problem in 1983 is that they were dead last in rushing yards and average (3.2 yards per run). They couldn´t replace Delaney (I remember that Theotis Brown and Billy Jackson were they top runners). The play I most remember of them was in a TNF game in week two against San Diego, when Carlos Carson (one of the top WR in the NFL that year) threw a surprise long TD pass to Henry Marshall. The Chiefs managed to lose that game, but at the halfway point of the season they were 4-4 (.500) and appearead that they could contest for a playoff spot. They had the bad luck that the Raiders, Seahawks and Broncos were playoff teams that year, and even that they beat both Denver and Seattle at Arrowhead, they lost all the other games against the AFC West.
User avatar
GameBeforeTheMoney
Posts: 576
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:21 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Levy/Mackovic Chiefs discussion

Post by GameBeforeTheMoney »

That's a great point -- the AFC West at that time was really, really tough.

Delaney's loss was indeed a tragedy and set the team back quite a bit. After that, I don't remember them having a running back of note until Okoye.

The thought of whom the 49ers may have drafted if they had the top pick is very compelling. I think Jack Thompson had set the NCAA passing record at Washington State, and Fuller had a tremendous career at Clemson. Phil Simms was part of that draft, too. Steve DeBerg was already at SF and he may have been able to beat out one of those guys -- he wasn't a bad QB. Really interesting to think about because you may be totally right -- they might have picked one of the other guys and Montana ends up somewhere else.
Podcast: https://Podcast.TheGameBeforeTheMoney.com

Website/Blog: https://TheGameBeforeTheMoney.com

Author's Name: Jackson Michael
Post Reply