Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL HC?

Post Reply
User avatar
Bryan
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:37 am

Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL HC?

Post by Bryan »

I was watching a recap of the 1977 season and it said that after a week 12 loss to Chicago, the Bucs were averaging 0.5 points per home game. I double-checked the math, and sure enough...point totals of 3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0. The Bucs exploded for 50 points in their final two games to raise their season point total to 103. Through their first 12 games, Tampa averaged 4.4 ppg. On the season, the Bucs scored 11 TDs, but 4 were defensive TDs. Offensively the Bucs produced 5.6 ppg.

Why were the Bucs so bad on offense in 76 and 77? Their counterparts in Seattle were miles ahead of Tampa in terms of offense. Other expansion teams either had decent offenses or bad offense, but no one was so far off the pace as the Bucs. The Bucs drafted Ricky Bell and were even worse in 1977 than they were in 1976. Was John McKay a terrible offensive coach, running student body left/right against NFL defenses? He coached 9 years in Tampa and finished last in offense 4 times. In general, do you have a positive or negative opinion of McKay's NFL tenure? Does it affect how you view his time at USC?
User avatar
JKelly
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Reading Pa

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by JKelly »

Reason #1

1976-77 Bucs had 6 starting QBS, Steve Spurrier, Parnell Dickinson, Terry Hanratty, Gary Huff, Randy Hedberg & Jeb Blount. Of those 6, only Gary Huff played in the NFL a season after starting for the Bucs. Compare that to the Seahawks they had 2 starting QBS in the same time frame Jim Zorn and Steve Myer.
User avatar
Bryan
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by Bryan »

JKelly wrote:Reason #1

1976-77 Bucs had 6 starting QBS, Steve Spurrier, Parnell Dickinson, Terry Hanratty, Gary Huff, Randy Hedberg & Jeb Blount. Of those 6, only Gary Huff played in the NFL a season after starting for the Bucs. Compare that to the Seahawks they had 2 starting QBS in the same time frame Jim Zorn and Steve Myer.
But I think if you asked people at the start of 1976 which team had the better QB situation, they would say Tampa because of Spurrier and Hanratty having been starting QBs at certain points of their careers. The Dolphins and Bengals each had an assortment of terrible QBs (including John Stofa twice) for their expansion seasons and neither team was even close to being as bad as Tampa on offense.
Brian wolf
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by Brian wolf »

Success starts with a quality offensive line and the Bucs allowed 50 sacks and committed 50 turnovers on offense as well. They did run the ball about 30 times a game but the QBs couldnt convert third downs enough ...

I truly feel that what caused problems for McKay and his players was adjusting to the Florida heat and humidity, which the Dolphins under Shula were able to do. After a few seasons, the Bucs became a lot tougher team. People have been posting about Keith Jackson being a HOVG quality TE but Jimmy Giles also had good speed and ability for his position ...
Gary Najman
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:24 pm
Location: Mexico City, Mexico

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by Gary Najman »

Brian wolf wrote:Success starts with a quality offensive line and the Bucs allowed 50 sacks and committed 50 turnovers on offense as well. They did run the ball about 30 times a game but the QBs couldnt convert third downs enough ...

I truly feel that what caused problems for McKay and his players was adjusting to the Florida heat and humidity, which the Dolphins under Shula were able to do. After a few seasons, the Bucs became a lot tougher team. People have been posting about Keith Jackson being a HOVG quality TE but Jimmy Giles also had good speed and ability for his position ...
I agree about GIles, I think he deserves his own HOVG discussion thread, one of the best TEs of the NFC in the 80s and maybe the Buccaneers best offensive player of TB early years.

I think the problem for McKay's offenses was their offensive line. I remember in McKay's last year that James Wilder had one of the best RB seasons I've ever seen (overshadowed by Eric Dickerson´s 2,105 rushing yards). He appeared to run or catch the ball in every Tampa Bay offensive play, yet his yards per run/catch were below average.
Last edited by Gary Najman on Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brian wolf
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by Brian wolf »

Derrick Henry with his size and upright running style reminds me of James Wilder, who had some good seasons with the Bucs but was overused. Hopefully, Henry can have a much longer career, though not the receiving threat Wilder was ...
Jay Z
Posts: 937
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: Madison WI

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by Jay Z »

They underinvested in QB certainly, compared to other things.

Here are what other franchises have done:

Cowboys - Don Meredith right away, also had Eddie Lebaron
Vikings - Tarkenton right away, also traded for George Shaw
Dolphins - drafted Griese in 2nd year
Falcons - drafted Randy Johnson in 1st year
Saints - Kilmer, also traded for Cuozzo
Bengals - drafted Greg Cook in 2nd year
Seahawks - Zorn right away
Jaguars - Brunell right away
Panthers - Kerry Collins right away
Browns - Tim Couch
Texans - Derek Carr

The Buccaneers historically underinvested. Spurrier was only going to last a year or two. Hanratty wasn't going to do much. Parnell Dickinson was a 7th round pick, nothing more than a flyer.

Gary Huff had been beaten out by Bob Avellini, for God's sake. Not that much of an investment. Randy Hedberg is another low round pick. Jeb Blount, like Larry Lawrence the year before, another flyer that the Raiders cast off. Surprised they didn't dig up Eldridge Dickey, though they would get Mike Rae soon enough.

Every other team either lucked into something, or made a big effort to get someone in year 1 or year 2. The Bucs didn't. Now the timing of the draft had something to do with that. In 1976 there was really only Richard Todd, no one else even worth getting. 1977 was better, they maybe should have traded up to get Tommy Kramer (though teams really didn't do that all that much at the time) but he went to the Vikings. Kramer would have been better than what they had even in 1977, the rest of them out there, better than 1976 but probably not immediate help.

Was there anything else out there? I suppose they could have gotten Lynn Dickey. Packers' line wasn't much better than the Bucs, and Dickey got hurt a couple of times in GB anyway. But he would have been better than what they had.
User avatar
Bryan
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Why was 76-77 Bucs offense so bad? McKay 'limited' NFL

Post by Bryan »

Jay Z wrote:They underinvested in QB certainly, compared to other things.

Here are what other franchises have done:

Cowboys - Don Meredith right away, also had Eddie Lebaron
Vikings - Tarkenton right away, also traded for George Shaw
Dolphins - drafted Griese in 2nd year
Falcons - drafted Randy Johnson in 1st year
Saints - Kilmer, also traded for Cuozzo
Bengals - drafted Greg Cook in 2nd year
Seahawks - Zorn right away
Jaguars - Brunell right away
Panthers - Kerry Collins right away
Browns - Tim Couch
Texans - Derek Carr

The Buccaneers historically underinvested. Spurrier was only going to last a year or two. Hanratty wasn't going to do much. Parnell Dickinson was a 7th round pick, nothing more than a flyer.

Gary Huff had been beaten out by Bob Avellini, for God's sake. Not that much of an investment. Randy Hedberg is another low round pick. Jeb Blount, like Larry Lawrence the year before, another flyer that the Raiders cast off. Surprised they didn't dig up Eldridge Dickey, though they would get Mike Rae soon enough.

Every other team either lucked into something, or made a big effort to get someone in year 1 or year 2. The Bucs didn't. Now the timing of the draft had something to do with that. In 1976 there was really only Richard Todd, no one else even worth getting. 1977 was better, they maybe should have traded up to get Tommy Kramer (though teams really didn't do that all that much at the time) but he went to the Vikings. Kramer would have been better than what they had even in 1977, the rest of them out there, better than 1976 but probably not immediate help.

Was there anything else out there? I suppose they could have gotten Lynn Dickey. Packers' line wasn't much better than the Bucs, and Dickey got hurt a couple of times in GB anyway. But he would have been better than what they had.

Interesting analysis of the situation. I'll buy it.
Post Reply