The TB Buccaneer Defense from 1997 - 2007

Discuss candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the PFRA's Hall of Very Good

Re: The TB Buccaneer Defense from 1997 - 2007

Postby Zero26 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:59 pm

Brian wolf wrote:Good calls Zero26 but Rice has an uphill climb with pass rushers Ware, Allen, Mathis and soon Freeney and Peppers coming up ... Suggs will get alot of attention as well with his ability to have many run-stuffs, tackles as well as sacks.

Lets say Barber gets in and now theyre four defenders from that great defense ... does Rice get left out like Nickerson ?

That's what I fear. Until this year I thought Rice was getting in at some point as he was making good progress with a decade of eligibility remaining. Now I'm not so sure. The bright side is I think every edge rusher you listed except maybe Mathis(who I think Rice compares well with, though the voters put Mathis to the semis over him) will be inducted within a few years and Rice should reach the front of the edge rushing line with time to spare. I'm more worried about him relative to players at other positions because I think today's list includes quite a few players who will not be inducted.

I'd hope they don't hold the other Bucs inductions against Rice but it's a possibility. I don't think 4 players from an all time great defense breaks any sort of quota I can think of a few units with that many(70s Steelers offense is the first that comes to mind for some reason)they only won one ring and that could really matter to today's voters. I think Rice's numbers speak for themselves and I hope the Tampa Bay presenter is using that to craft a compelling case but he is light on honors for a HOF player(though with Fred Taylor getting to the top of the RB this far multiple times I'm skeptical this electorate cares).

I don't think Nickerson's a HOF'er and I think Lynch was boderline but I wouldn't have regarded him as highly as the HOF voters did. He just fell into the crowd of players who get in because they've been waiting in line for x amount of time rather than being one of the 5 best candidates the year they are inducted. I don't think he could have ever got to the top of senior mountain while I think eventually Rice can if he isn't inducted by the main process.
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Re: The TB Buccaneer Defense from 1997 - 2007

Postby Bryan » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:57 pm

Brian wolf wrote:Meanwhile, the Bill Arnsparger defense from the no-name years of Miami, that went to three consecutive SBs, has just ONE member elected ... Buoniconti. The skill positions on their offense, including Griese, Warfield and Czonka overcrowd perhaps teammates like Scott, Anderson and Kuechenberg from possibly getting voted in.

With Zack Thomas also on the ballot, he could join teammate, Jason Taylor in the HOF ... one more Dolphin than the team from the 70s.

Without the championships of course ...

I'm not really a fan of championship team HOF quotas. Trying to fit in a certain amount of HOF for championship offensive/defensive units tends to cloud actual reality, much like All-Decade teams trying to encapsulate a player's career into a somewhat random 10-year period. I think Anderson and Scott were arguably the greatest safety tandem in NFL history, but I wouldn't put either guy in the HOF because they simply didn't have HOF careers. I'm not sure what actual player on those No-Name defenses is being overlooked by Canton. Those teams were extremely well-coached and had smart players who played physical and didn't make mistakes. They showed that you can have an effective defense even without an overabundance of talent, and I think Miami's success with a heavy reliance on zone defense did more to bring about the 1978 rule changes than a super-gifted CB like Mel Blount. Not every team had players like Mel Blount, but every team did have players like Mike Kolen and Curtis Johnson. Zone defense with smart, physical safeties is what brought about the offensive "drought" in the 1970s, not Mel Blount IMO.
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Re: The TB Buccaneer Defense from 1997 - 2007

Postby Brian wolf » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:07 pm

Great opinion Bryan but the only thing that has stopped Anderson and Scott from making the HOF were injuries.
They could hit, tackle and intercept the ball, especially Scott and didnt allow big plays or cheap TDs. They were so good together they didnt have to have a Willie Brown or Mel Blount. Had either player got to 11 or 12 years in their careers, theyre already in, especially being part of a team that went to three straight SBs before losing Warfield and Csonka to the cheapness of Joe Robbie.

The Colts had similar safeties in Jerry Logan and Rick Volk who also could do it all but that defeat to the Jets have hurt different Colts from getting more HOF consideration like Vogel, Curtis and Boyd
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