Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Discuss candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the PFRA's Hall of Very Good
Zero26
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Zero26 »

Brian wolf wrote:Bengals fans have had enough. Cheap organization, too many losing seasons, bad decades, Mike Brown you say?
Nope, not enough Bengals players in the Hall Of Fame ...
They plan to rally/protest in July, though I doubt it will do much good.

Paul Brown was shrewd enough to get back into the NFL fold by using the AFL, and the future merger he knew was coming, to bring forth quickly, a new expansion team in the Bengals, though he probably didnt respect the AFL teams enough, as his team got hammered in 1968-69, while he insisted on playing young talent, a move that paid dividends the first year of the merger in 1970, as his young team won a surprise, divisional title. His teams were very competitive in the 70s and 80s but once he stepped down and followed the dreadful, NFL nepotism bandwagon by letting his son own and control the team, mediocrity became a way of life for Bengals fans that deserved better ...

Now, they have to relive somewhat, glory from the past by demanding that more players make the HOF and though their argument is legitimate, it would be better if the team was sold to better owners, or -surprise- to the fans themselves, ala Packers, who could-would do whatever it takes to produce a consistent winner. For some reason, the fans are focusing on eight deserved players, Ken Anderson, Ken Riley, Lemarr Parrish, Isaac Curtis, Max Montoya, Willie Anderson, Chad Johnson and Corey Dillon, while hoping the voters and committees will be more sympathetic in the future, which is curious since Riley was almost voted in as a senior candidate, recently.

I think six of the eight Bengals have cases, though I would replace Curtis and Johnson with Krumrie and Bergey but it will be interesting to see if this rally/protest could at least help Dillon, Riley again or Willie Anderson in future voting.

For me, Parrish should be the next senior Bengal voted in but I have no problem with Ken Anderson or Riley. Had Curtis not had his later injuries or Mike Reid not retired soon to music/songwriting, they would already be voted in by now instead of the team having just one elected member in Munoz ...
See it pretty similarily 4 or 5/8 for me with nos on Curtis, Montoya and Johnson/Ocho Cinco. For me the most deserving is a tossup between Ken Anderson and Parrish. Both are among the most deserving senior candidates on their side of their ball IMO.

I would also have Parrish over Riley but feel both should make it. Thing with Riley is I think he'll be breaking the 0 pro bowl glass ceiling but if it has to be someone it should be him. I recall there being a few DB's with a lot of picks and not a lot of honors and I'm curious how Riley's election will effect their cases.

In terms of the regular process I feel much worse about Dillons chances as this year suggests they value guys like Fred Taylor and Eddie George more. I don't see the HOF inducting either and this not bode well for Dillons chances. I personally have Dillon as the best non HOF RB of that cluster drafted in the 90s but it does not seem the voters agree.

Most teams fans will think the HOF is biased against their team even seen some Patriots fans complain forgetting most of their HOF'ers aren't eligible yet. I feel the voters would get that from everyone. But the Bengal fans do have as much a reason to feel that way as anyone. I don't think the average fan would be aware just how close Riley is to induction though(or maybe they are aware and they are trying to get him over the finish line specifically?) Interesting thought though is with Willie Anderson and Whitworth likely the next 2 regular process HOFers they'd already be up to 3 HOF tackles.
SixtiesFan
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by SixtiesFan »

conace21 wrote:
SixtiesFan wrote:
sluggermatt15 wrote:Dillon is a very interesting case. His numbers are pretty darn good - almost 90 total TDs & over 13,000 total yards. But never an all-pro selection. HOVG lock though. His career is similar to some guys that are in - Floyd Little, Jerome Bettis... and others who should/could be in - Herschel Walker, Marshawn Lynch.

Anderson I see in the HOF at some point.
Some years ago I saw an article about O.J. Simpson's career as a whole. One point was that on paper O.J.'s numbers look similar to Corey Dillon's career numbers. I agree that Dillon should be in the HOVG.
Ignoring the fact that OJ played in a 14 game season, and the general consensus that OJ had a five year run as the best RB in the league, and had 2 of the best 5 or 6 seasons by a RB ever. His 2,000 yards in 14 games in 1973 earned him every award an athlete could win for that year.

His 1,800 yards and 23 total touchdowns in 1975 was even better.
I am perfectly aware O.J. Simpson had a phenomenal five year run and two of the best (in 14-games) seasons ever. I said Dillon could be in the HOVG not the HOF. The writer was sort of downplaying Simpson's overall career. Someone who wasn't around when O.J. played may not understand the impact he had. Every year there are more people in that category.
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Bryan
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Bryan »

SixtiesFan wrote:I am perfectly aware O.J. Simpson had a phenomenal five year run and two of the best (in 14-games) seasons ever. I said Dillon could be in the HOVG not the HOF. The writer was sort of downplaying Simpson's overall career. Someone who wasn't around when O.J. played may not understand the impact he had. Every year there are more people in that category.
Perhaps the writer did a similar article in the early 1980's and compared Mike Pruitt to Steve Van Buren?

As for the Bengals, I like Lemar Parrish for the HOF due to his spectacular play making ability, I could go along with Ken Anderson, but none of the other players are HOF worthy IMO. Those early 70's Bengals teams were fun and interesting, but I don't see HOFers looking at individual careers. Some of them are outstanding on film, like a younger/faster Isaac Curtis and Mike Reid, but the career output just isn't there. Tommy Casanova was a fine safety, but even if he played 10-12 years I don't see him as a HOFer. Same with Bill Bergey...had he stayed with the Bengals his whole career I don't think HOF. Krumrie was a special NT for a few years, but he got hurt. I don't like shoehorning players into the HOF because certain teams/franchises are allegedly underrepresented.
Brian wolf
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Brian wolf »

What is your opinion of Dillon, W Anderson, Johnson and Riley, Bryan ?
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Bryan
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Bryan »

Brian wolf wrote:What is your opinion of Dillon, W Anderson, Johnson and Riley, Bryan ?
I don't think any are HOF-worthy. I really liked Dillon as a player, but I never viewed him as an elite RB. Same is kind of true with Anderson. Chad Johnson was really good for a couple years, but he was kind of odd in that he was a possession WR whose career nosedived when he lost his quickness. I don't think there is enough meat on the bone to enshrine Johnson. I'm not a fan of Ken Riley, TBH. Parrish was better, Parrish was more spectacular, and if you want to put in a CB who didn't have great 'honors', I'd be much more inclined to go with Charles Tillman, Pat Fischer, or even Bobby Boyd. At least those guys were key pieces in elite defenses. Then Bengals defense with Riley was always above-average.
Brian wolf
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Brian wolf »

Though they lost the SB, still more good news for Bengals fans with the selection of Ken Riley to the HOF. Hopefully, Parrish and both Andersons might get their due as well and the team might even get a new practice field but for now, any good news is better than no news at all. Will Mike Brown accept money to take his father's name off the stadium ?
Gary Najman
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Gary Najman »

Brian wolf wrote:Though they lost the SB, still more good news for Bengals fans with the selection of Ken Riley to the HOF. Hopefully, Parrish and both Andersons might get their due as well and the team might even get a new practice field but for now, any good news is better than no news at all. Will Mike Brown accept money to take his father's name off the stadium ?
As many have said, Parrish had more honors and was a better choice, but I'm fine with Riley, even with his lack of Pro Bowls and very few All-Pro/All-AFC selections. Remember that Mel Blount (contemporary of both Riley and Parrish) "only" went to 5 Pro Bowls.
JohnTurney
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by JohnTurney »

Teo wrote: even with his lack of Pro Bowls and very few All-Pro/All-AFC selections. Remember that Mel Blount (contemporary of both Riley and Parrish) "only" went to 5 Pro Bowls.
5 for Blount is more than zero.

players who made All-pro in Ken Riley's era---not exactly all time greats
Ken Ellis Robert James, Louis Wright, Monte Jackson, Rolland Lawrence, Willie Buchanon, Lester Hayes, Pat Thomas, Mark Haynes, Louis Breeden -- All-were First-team All-pro before RIley made it.

The Pro Bowl guys include Gary Green, Greg Stimrick . . . that made Pro Bowl in era--so maybe it does not matter but being voted by your peers as one of top three in your conference at least one time does not seem like it is too much to ask.

However, the HOF committee obviously thought his picks were enough. And that committee is all that matters.
Brian wolf
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Brian wolf »

It's funny because Riley wasnt even one of the 20 finalists for the Centennial Class. His momentum started the following year and viola' a chance to get enshrined. Louis Wright might have been more deserving and Robert James would have had an even better case had he not succumbed to injuries.
Meanwhile, a shutdown corner like Albert Lewis, who also starred on special teams like Parrish, suffers because he probably didnt have enough interceptions like Wright.
Gary Najman
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Re: Bengals Fans: HOF Protest Rally

Post by Gary Najman »

JohnTurney wrote:
Teo wrote: even with his lack of Pro Bowls and very few All-Pro/All-AFC selections. Remember that Mel Blount (contemporary of both Riley and Parrish) "only" went to 5 Pro Bowls.
5 for Blount is more than zero.

players who made All-pro in Ken Riley's era---not exactly all time greats
Ken Ellis Robert James, Louis Wright, Monte Jackson, Rolland Lawrence, Willie Buchanon, Lester Hayes, Pat Thomas, Mark Haynes, Louis Breeden -- All-were First-team All-pro before RIley made it.

The Pro Bowl guys include Gary Green, Greg Stimrick . . . that made Pro Bowl in era--so maybe it does not matter but being voted by your peers as one of top three in your conference at least one time does not seem like it is too much to ask.

However, the HOF committee obviously thought his picks were enough. And that committee is all that matters.
I completely agree, and as you said, many different players made the Pro Bowl and/or All-Pro at cornerback during Riley's time in the NFL. It reminds me something at was has happened in the wide receiver category, where many players have had individual great seasons, but not all of them had great careers or they have distinguished over their peers. I have advocate for Harold Jackson (leading receiver of the 70s in all three categories, playing with 3 different teams during the decade and without a Hall of Fame quarterback), but he has slipped through the cracks over the years.
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