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Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:48 pm
by JameisLoseston
In terms of the receivers while I prefer Otis Taylor over the all decade picks I think Powell and Hennigan belong in the HOF if it's a yes or no question. Bigger problem for me is how many other HOF worthy WR's there are who didn't play their whole careers in the AFL. This seems to be the issue at most positions. While AFL only HOF candidates didn't get a fair trial by the HOF before they became seniors it'd also be hard to justify inducting most of them over other seniors. I think the AFL issue should be handled seperate.


Tell me about it. WR is crazy backlogged. Benton, Howton, and Shofner, along with Powell and Hennigan, make up 5 of my, I don't know, 10 or so biggest HOF snubs. Dilweg and Lewellen are of course in there too, and I'll round it out with Gradishar, Jim Marshall (we know exactly why he's not in...), and Herschel Walker. The more I look at Ken Anderson, the more I feel he's actually too similar to quite a few solidly HOVG guys around that era who get talked about a lot less... Roman Gabriel, for instance, seems to me to have a comparable claim, and I wouldn't rank him too high on this list. Both are better picks than, say, Stabler though.

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:15 pm
by Bob Gill
JameisLoseston wrote:Tell me about it. WR is crazy backlogged. Benton, Howton, and Shofner, along with Powell and Hennigan, make up 5 of my, I don't know, 10 or so biggest HOF snubs. Dilweg and Lewellen are of course in there too, and I'll round it out with Gradishar, Jim Marshall (we know exactly why he's not in...), and Herschel Walker. The more I look at Ken Anderson, the more I feel he's actually too similar to quite a few solidly HOVG guys around that era who get talked about a lot less... Roman Gabriel, for instance, seems to me to have a comparable claim, and I wouldn't rank him too high on this list. Both are better picks than, say, Stabler though.


For my money, I don't think I'd vote for Anderson, Gabriel OR Stabler.

I'd agree with most of your "snubs," with the exception of Hennigan, Marshall and Walker. I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means, but I think I know exactly why he's not in: He wasn't good enough. I mean, I'd rather have him in there than all these "contributors" they're putting in these days, but otherwise I don't think Marshall has any meaningful qualifications than at least a hundred other guys have. As for Hennigan, his career wasn't very long and his impressive stats were all compiled against subpar pass defenses in the AFL's first few seasons. I think Abner Haynes has a better case for AFL guys of that vintage, and I wouldn't vote for Haynes either.

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:21 am
by JameisLoseston
I will admit that Hennigan is a personal taste that some share and many don't. I have a hankering for big black numbers.

I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means


To be more clear: he's the guy who's chiefly known for running the wrong way, and that's the first thing literally everyone thinks about upon hearing his name. I'm sure that has hindered his candidacy, even if no one will consciously acknowledge it.

Weird thing I just noticed: I don't see any large negative amounts of fumble recovery yards recorded on his stat card.

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:56 pm
by racepug
JameisLoseston wrote:Jim Marshall (we know exactly why he's not in...)

Please elaborate.

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:38 am
by Brian wolf
If the HOF Board Of Directors decide to allow two seniors per year again, Marshall will have his chance but he is still a polarizing figure amongst fans and voters. Lots of sacks, fumble recoveries and contributions to consistent team wins but also low accolades, being overshadowed by two other teammates on the defensive line and defenses that were embarrased by opposing running attacks in the SBs ...
What really hurts Marshall though was his years from 1972-79, where he just couldnt get the QB down as much though his teammates, Page and Eller were putting up better numbers themselves ...

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:26 am
by rewing84
Brian wolf wrote:If the HOF Board Of Directors decide to allow two seniors per year again, Marshall will have his chance but he is still a polarizing figure amongst fans and voters. Lots of sacks, fumble recoveries and contributions to consistent team wins but also low accolades, being overshadowed by two other teammates on the defensive line and defenses that were embarrased by opposing running attacks in the SBs ...
What really hurts Marshall though was his years from 1972-79, where he just couldnt get the QB down as much though his teammates, Page and Eller were putting up better numbers themselves ...

In your opinion brian who is the best vikings senior

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:37 am
by conace21
JameisLoseston wrote:I will admit that Hennigan is a personal taste that some share and many don't. I have a hankering for big black numbers.

I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means


To be more clear: he's the guy who's chiefly known for running the wrong way, and that's the first thing literally everyone thinks about upon hearing his name. I'm sure that has hindered his candidacy, even if no one will consciously acknowledge it.

Weird thing I just noticed: I don't see any large negative amounts of fumble recovery yards recorded on his stat card.


Marshall hasn't been excluded from the HOF due to the wrong-way run. He doesn't have the postseason honors for Canton. He was a consensus 2nd Team All Pro in 1969, made a solitary 2nd Team All Pro squad in 1964, and in 1968, and a 2nd Team All Conference squad in 1971. Does being pretty to very good for a long time make you great?

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:23 am
by Brian wolf
Robert, I like Henry Thomas alot but like Marshall he has low accolades and was overshadowed by his two linemates in Randle and Doleman. Browner has a great case but I think I would go with Matt Blair, an underrated but complete linebacker ...

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:54 am
by SixtiesFan
conace21 wrote:
JameisLoseston wrote:I will admit that Hennigan is a personal taste that some share and many don't. I have a hankering for big black numbers.

I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means


To be more clear: he's the guy who's chiefly known for running the wrong way, and that's the first thing literally everyone thinks about upon hearing his name. I'm sure that has hindered his candidacy, even if no one will consciously acknowledge it.

Weird thing I just noticed: I don't see any large negative amounts of fumble recovery yards recorded on his stat card.


Marshall hasn't been excluded from the HOF due to the wrong-way run. He doesn't have the postseason honors for Canton. He was a consensus 2nd Team All Pro in 1969, made a solitary 2nd Team All Pro squad in 1964, and in 1968, and a 2nd Team All Conference squad in 1971. Does being pretty to very good for a long time make you great?


I've always thought the wrong-way run made Jim Marshall a "name" player. If he had the postseason honors he would long ago have made the HOF.

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:36 pm
by JameisLoseston
Marshall is a weird player. He was a quality player for a very long time, but "quality player" is about as far as one could describe him at any moment. Basically the opposite of someone like Hennigan. So the counting numbers look like a HOFer, but it's tough to say he ever played like one. The harder I look, I'm not so sure how big a snub he really is. He's the definition of HOVG, though.

As for Herschel Walker, which I never addressed: that's pretty much a Pro Football Hall of Fame take, which you're free to share or not.