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Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:14 pm
by Brian wolf
J&L beat me to it ... despite a great career, Boldin was the same as Hines Ward, a strong possession receiver with both having championships, though Ward was a SB MVP and superior blocker. Both have low yardage per catches but were great team players. I would choose Ward over Boldin but still believe Henry Ellard is better than all these semifinalist receivers ...

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:42 pm
by JameisLoseston
It seems like the committee has just forgotten about Henry Ellard. Has he ever even made the semis cut?

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:31 pm
by Bryan
Zero26 wrote:Eddie George is the most interesting selection IMO. I have him second among that large cluster of non all decade RB's drafted in the late 90s and early 2000s behind Corey Dillon. They are mostly on the wrong side of borderline IMO but this offers insight into how the HOF voters rank this cluster of RBs. You'd think 1 pro bowl would preclude Taylor(who I do not think should be in the HOF) from even being considered but it seems the committee is looking past that. I vaguely recall him being considered in the past? You'd think if they were going to go with a 1 pro bowl RB it'd be Jamal Lewis who made the all decade team and IMO has better stats(Taylor has better totals, Lewis better averages, the 2k yard season and the ring). I would have Watters above all these guys though and think he's the only running back who even has a prayer of induction this year in what will be a very competitive class.


Yes, there is a massive group of "second tier" RBs who are all becoming eligible for the HOF. I'm not sure if any of them will make the HOF. I thought Corey Dillon was underappreciated during his career and was always productive despite a poor supporting cast. Jamal Lewis (when healthy) was the closest thing to Jim Brown that I've ever seen...the guy was a monster. I think those two guys were subjectively the 2nd and 3rd best RBs of that "cluster" behind Priest Holmes, but again, not sure if any are HOF-worthy.

I'm not as high on Eddie George as you. A tough runner, but perhaps the most "undynamic" RB in history. All I remember about George is Ray Lewis ripping the ball out of his hands in a playoff game, and having one season where he spent nearly the entire year averaging 2.8 yards per carry. I'd rather have a guy like Ahman Green than Eddie George.

Fred Taylor - injured quite a bit, but surprised that he made only 1 pro bowl. He was really good when healthy.
Steven Jackson - wonky career...had a couple nice seasons, most of the time was simply fed the ball, and compiled 15000+ of very empty yards
Shaun Alexander - perhaps the wonkiest RB career in NFL history. I never was all that impressed by him when I watched him play, but the TD totals are ridiculous.
Clinton Portis - maybe if he had stayed with Denver his entire career, but going to Washington ended his HOF chances IMO.

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:30 pm
by Brian wolf
Great views on these running backs ...

Dillon and George were handicapped by lack of weapons on their offenses but at least Dillon got a ring with Brady. George was a workhorse like Earl Campbell but was very effective his first seven seasons, while his QBs mostly threw to the tight ends. After crossing 10,000 yards rushing, his body gave out but he helped the Titans win games and contend for a SB. Alexander ran smart behind his excellent line but 120 TDs counting postseason has to give him a legitimate HOF case. Lewis looked more to me like Herschel Walker than Jim Brown with speed and power, while Taylor, despite great talent, seemed to get hurt alot and was not big enough in the big games. Holmes, Barber and Watters were great all purpose threats with some issues --injuries for Holmes-- while Dunn had a great career despite small size.

Personally, I would put Ottis Anderson and Craig in before these guys ...

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:38 pm
by sluggermatt15
I'm surprised there has not been more consideration for Alexander. He really took over games. He was also the MVP and Offensive POY in 2005, almost 11,000 total scrimmage yards for his career. A complete back, very much like Holmes.

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:48 pm
by JameisLoseston
sluggermatt15 wrote:I'm surprised there has not been more consideration for Alexander. He really took over games. He was also the MVP and Offensive POY in 2005, almost 11,000 total scrimmage yards for his career. A complete back, very much like Holmes.


I think there is a perception that late 90s-early 2000s was an elevated stats era for RB the same way 2011-present has been for QB. Many teams had one bellcow RB that they ran straight into the ground during this time. Some just got run into the ground quicker, but a bunch of them had a season or two like this. So the extremely high numbers of guys like Alexander, Holmes, and Lewis don't get as much weight as they would if they happened earlier. They'd be first-ballot locks on their numbers if they played in any other era.

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:53 pm
by Zero26
Bryan wrote:
Zero26 wrote:Eddie George is the most interesting selection IMO. I have him second among that large cluster of non all decade RB's drafted in the late 90s and early 2000s behind Corey Dillon. They are mostly on the wrong side of borderline IMO but this offers insight into how the HOF voters rank this cluster of RBs. You'd think 1 pro bowl would preclude Taylor(who I do not think should be in the HOF) from even being considered but it seems the committee is looking past that. I vaguely recall him being considered in the past? You'd think if they were going to go with a 1 pro bowl RB it'd be Jamal Lewis who made the all decade team and IMO has better stats(Taylor has better totals, Lewis better averages, the 2k yard season and the ring). I would have Watters above all these guys though and think he's the only running back who even has a prayer of induction this year in what will be a very competitive class.


Yes, there is a massive group of "second tier" RBs who are all becoming eligible for the HOF. I'm not sure if any of them will make the HOF. I thought Corey Dillon was underappreciated during his career and was always productive despite a poor supporting cast. Jamal Lewis (when healthy) was the closest thing to Jim Brown that I've ever seen...the guy was a monster. I think those two guys were subjectively the 2nd and 3rd best RBs of that "cluster" behind Priest Holmes, but again, not sure if any are HOF-worthy.

I'm not as high on Eddie George as you. A tough runner, but perhaps the most "undynamic" RB in history. All I remember about George is Ray Lewis ripping the ball out of his hands in a playoff game, and having one season where he spent nearly the entire year averaging 2.8 yards per carry. I'd rather have a guy like Ahman Green than Eddie George.

Fred Taylor - injured quite a bit, but surprised that he made only 1 pro bowl. He was really good when healthy.
Steven Jackson - wonky career...had a couple nice seasons, most of the time was simply fed the ball, and compiled 15000+ of very empty yards
Shaun Alexander - perhaps the wonkiest RB career in NFL history. I never was all that impressed by him when I watched him play, but the TD totals are ridiculous.
Clinton Portis - maybe if he had stayed with Denver his entire career, but going to Washington ended his HOF chances IMO.


Well the 2000 all decade teams picked Alexander and Lewis and it's going to be very interesting how those cases are treated. I do think Alexander should be in and it's kind of puzzling why these running backs are in the semi finals and he isn't. 112 touchdowns and an MVP is just too much and he almost hit 11k from scrimmage( the modern media seems to have tunnel vision for rushing yards and falling short of 10k there is probably the reason). IMO he should be heads and shoulders above the pack. Another theory for George and Taylor being on top of the pile both George and Taylor would be their franchises first HOF'er? Lewis has a really unique case we haven't seen anything like.


Of the 90s cluster the only one I think should be inducted is Dillon. In terms of career stats, averages, accolades and postseason success he is just near the top of the group in everything. I'd have George second and am not a hard no on him but I did not expect him to get this far in the process. In terms of George being "undynamic" I'd agree but there isn't one way to play running back he was more of a scorer though not as much as Dillon or Alexander. His yardage stats still compare well with a lot of the group even though they aren't at the front. I'd probably have Holmes third. I have George ahead because of consistancy 8 1k yard rushing seasons is one area where George stands out even if he only made the pro bowl half those times. 4 pro bowls is also near the top accolades wise for that group. Holmes stats are better and his career totals in TD's even catch George's so I understand putting Holmes higher but IMO i just feel most of his resume is the 3 super seasons.

IMO Portis,Jackson and Taylor all fall short.

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:28 pm
by Brian wolf
With all due respect Zero26, I still consider George an Oiler despite playing as a Titan and finishing as a Cowboy. George was the ONLY reason Oiler fans went to the games in 1996, as owner Bud Adams was ready to take their team away and go to Memphis before coming to Nashville.

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:00 pm
by racepug
Zach Thomas is, I believe, the most-decorated player in Dolphins history so I'm a little surprised that he hasn't yet been voted in. In my view Shaun Alexander was the beneficiary of having TWO future H.o.F. OL (Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson) blocking for him. Without them I seriously doubt he would've accomplished as much as he did (as proof I offer the evidence of how quickly his career turned downward after "Big Hutch" left for MIN). In short - if I were a P.F.H.o.F. voter I'd have to give serious consideration to Zach Thomas. Shaun Alexander? Never in a million years.

Re: 2022 HoF Semi-Finalists

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:13 pm
by sluggermatt15
racepug wrote:Zach Thomas is, I believe, the most-decorated player in Dolphins history so I'm a little surprised that he hasn't yet been voted in. In my view Shaun Alexander was the beneficiary of having TWO future H.o.F. OL (Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson) blocking for him. Without them I seriously doubt he would've accomplished as much as he did (as proof I offer the evidence of how quickly his career turned downward after "Big Hutch" left for MIN). In short - if I were a P.F.H.o.F. voter I'd have to give serious consideration to Zach Thomas. Shaun Alexander? Never in a million years.


Maybe a harsh criticism of Alexander, but a guy has to be special to win the MVP award. Also consider Matt Hasselbeck was not the greatest of QBs. He did enough to get the job done. He was never an all-pro player. But I will also give you that Mack Strong was a pretty good fullback.

But are you really going to say players have to carry teams on their back to be PFHOF worthy? Many of the greatest players in NFL history have had playmakers around them in order to be successful.