2022 HOF Semifinalists

Discuss candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the PFRA's Hall of Very Good

2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Brian wolf » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:48 pm

The Semifinalist List for the Class Of 2022 has been announced.

Rodney Harrison and Cornelius Bennett failed to make it from last year

Boldin, Smith and Johnson make it as receivers their first year of eligibility, along with Hester as a specialist.

Only Willie Anderson joining Boselli as an offensive linemen.

Wilfork makes it over DT Kevin Williams. Mathis is the only new DE to make it ...

Eddie George makes it for his first time, joining Watters and Taylor at RB.

Biggest Disappointments Who Dont Advance

Leslie O' Neil
Albert Lewis
Henry Ellard
Steve Wisniewski
Rodney Harrison
Neil Smith
Kevin Williams
Corey Dillon
Shaun Alexander
Logan Mankins
Asante Samuel
Hardy Nickerson

I would have chosen starters, Walker and Metcalf who played special teams over Hester ...
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby rewing84 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:58 pm

im sorry brian im going to have to disagree with you on hester may i remind you of his stats

3× First-team All-Pro (2006, 2007, 2010)
Second-team All-Pro (2011)
4× Pro Bowl (2006, 2007, 2010, 2014)
3× NFL Alumni Special Teams Player of the Year (2006, 2007, 2010)
NFL 2000s All-Decade Team
NFL 2010s All-Decade Team
NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team



His Records
20 total return touchdowns, career
14 punt return touchdowns, career
6 total return touchdowns, season (tied)
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Brian wolf » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:32 pm

Youre right Robert, all true but Hester was not much of a receiver or starter and Herschel Walker and Eric Metcalf had better careers as starters, along with Steve Smith and Derrick Mason, who all excelled on special teams. I will admit, Hester is the best punt returner EVER but 38 total career TDs does not make a HOF career ...
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Zero26 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:19 pm

Brian wolf wrote:Youre right Robert, all true but Hester was not much of a receiver or starter and Herschel Walker and Eric Metcalf had better careers as starters, along with Steve Smith and Derrick Mason, who all excelled on special teams. I will admit, Hester is the best punt returner EVER but 38 total career TDs does not make a HOF career ...


He has the most non offensive TD's ever narrowly edging out Deion Sanders. Major statistical records should get you in IMO and that qualifies. Among returners Brian Mitchell is second with 13. His impact can not be stated fully by touchdowns as he created a deterrent effect similar to how a lockdown corner impact can't be fully measured by their interception total because no ones throwing to them. I normally think the "changed the game" criteria is really silly and unreasonable but Hester did change the game in a way that can't be measured by his stats.

Returners can only see the ball so many times a game/season etc. In context 20 is incredible. A comparison I make is that in the early days of the NFL 20ish TD's was HOF worthy for a WR, Hewitt got into the HOF largely because of his 23 TD's and both Johnsos and Flaherty(PFR incorrectly claims he's in the Hall as a player and I think that mistakes is because he was just so good they assumed he was in as a player?) are deserving of the HOF IMO with 20. Wayne Milner got into the HOF with just 12 TD's though he's one of the more controversial players in the Hall. Unlike receiving TD's there's also the reality Hesters record will almost certainly never be broken. It won't be a slippery slope that will lead to more returners getting in, he's going to be the first and the last.

I do not think Hesters mediocre career as a WR should even be considered as part of his HOF argument tbh. If he'd been a specialist returner like kickers and punters are IMO it shouldn't make a difference. He was the best who ever did what he did and I think he should be accepted or rejected on that.

Another player you reminded me about is Leslie O Neal. I think he belongs and I feel the HOF are neglecting the edge rushers a bit this year. Porcher wasn't even nominated(Jake Delhomme was nominated come on) and Rice, O Neal and Smith all missed the semis. I guess Ware, Allen and Mathis are still there but that position is only going to get more crowded next year with Freeney and Peppers(i think thats next year I could be off).
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Brian wolf » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:20 pm

Despite being a great pass rusher who could also stop the run, O'Neil just doesnt wow the voters which is a shame.
Albert Lewis was a great player as well and cant get traction. I understand the arguments about Hester but if he is elected, he will probably shut the door on other great returners like Mitchell, Metcalf, Johnson, Upchurch, Timmy Brown, Abe Woodson, Lemar Parrish and other returners who had cases ...

I know you dont favor Tasker but at some point the HOF needs to acknowledge great gunner/wedge/tacklers that had an impact on games like Tasker, Bates, Bauer, Bates, Izzo and Slater, once a returner --probably Hester-- has entered along with kickers.
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Brian wolf » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:07 pm

Zero26 wrote:
Brian wolf wrote:Youre right Robert, all true but Hester was not much of a receiver or starter and Herschel Walker and Eric Metcalf had better careers as starters, along with Steve Smith and Derrick Mason, who all excelled on special teams. I will admit, Hester is the best punt returner EVER but 38 total career TDs does not make a HOF career ...


He has the most non offensive TD's ever narrowly edging out Deion Sanders. Major statistical records should get you in IMO and that qualifies. Among returners Brian Mitchell is second with 13. His impact can not be stated fully by touchdowns as he created a deterrent effect similar to how a lockdown corner impact can't be fully measured by their interception total because no ones throwing to them. I normally think the "changed the game" criteria is really silly and unreasonable but Hester did change the game in a way that can't be measured by his stats.

Returners can only see the ball so many times a game/season etc. In context 20 is incredible. A comparison I make is that in the early days of the NFL 20ish TD's was HOF worthy for a WR, Hewitt got into the HOF largely because of his 23 TD's and both Johnsos and Flaherty(PFR incorrectly claims he's in the Hall as a player and I think that mistakes is because he was just so good they assumed he was in as a player?) are deserving of the HOF IMO with 20. Wayne Milner got into the HOF with just 12 TD's though he's one of the more controversial players in the Hall. Unlike receiving TD's there's also the reality Hesters record will almost certainly never be broken. It won't be a slippery slope that will lead to more returners getting in, he's going to be the first and the last.

I do not think Hesters mediocre career as a WR should even be considered as part of his HOF argument tbh. If he'd been a specialist returner like kickers and punters are IMO it shouldn't make a difference. He was the best who ever did what he did and I think he should be accepted or rejected on that.

Another player you reminded me about is Leslie O Neal. I think he belongs and I feel the HOF are neglecting the edge rushers a bit this year. Porcher wasn't even nominated(Jake Delhomme was nominated come on) and Rice, O Neal and Smith all missed the semis. I guess Ware, Allen and Mathis are still there but that position is only going to get more crowded next year with Freeney and Peppers(i think thats next year I could be off).
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Brian wolf » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:46 pm

Sorry, my phone messed up while trying to emphasize the quote from Zero26, saying " I do not think Hester's mediocre career as a WR should even be considered as part of his HOF argument to be honest." I respectfully disagree ... so youre saying that Eric Metcalf with 57 career TDs, counting postseason, including 13 on special teams should take a backseat to Hester's HOF credentials because he had 7 less TDs on returns but 19 more overrall ? I am sorry, but I cant agree with that.

Like Bryan said on another post, Hester was a specialist among specialists and was a great returner because he really didnt do anything else, while Metcalf was both a starting RB and WR on offense and was more tired during games before setting up for returns.

Yes, special teams are 1/3 of the game and are as equally important as offense or defense to winning but with scoring always the key to victory, a player like Metcalf or Walker, Sproles, Timmy Brown etc; theyre scores on offense should not be discounted because they didnt score as much on special teams as Devin Hester. Scoring period, regardless of position or platoon, should always be a major factor in whether a player should make the HOF IMO ...

If Hester as the best returner ever, makes the HOF, his career 38 TDs will be the lowest number since Mac Speedie in 2020, who played in the 1940s ..
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby JameisLoseston » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:56 am

I think it's more about being the best at something than an overall consideration of value. On that measure, Hester doesn't come close to HOF, but he is the best ever at something that inherently does not provide a lot of raw value. The argument is basically that if someone is going to get in mainly because of their work as a returner, it has to be the best returner, irrespective of any other factors. That makes it, to me, the kind of case where I'd think it's stupid to give him first ballot, but won't have a problem when he gets in eventually.
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Bob Gill » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:14 am

Brian wolf wrote:Yes, special teams are 1/3 of the game and are as equally important as offense or defense to winning ...


Actually, that's not true.

Years ago, out of curiosity I checked one season's stats (this was sometime in the 1990s, I think) to see just what percentage of plays involve special teams, and it was just about exactly one-SEVENTH, not one-third. Given the huge increase in touchbacks on kickoffs, I'm sure it's even less than that today.

Not singling you out for making this mistake, because people say it all the time. And it's easy to see how special teams can be overvalued this way. We do tend to break the game down into three phases -- offense, defense, special teams -- and that sort of implies that they're equally important. But it's like saying there are three results on passing plays -- completions, incompletions, interceptions -- and then assuming that means one-third of all passes are intercepted.
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Re: 2022 HOF Semifinalists

Postby Bryan » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:51 pm

Zero26 wrote: I normally think the "changed the game" criteria is really silly and unreasonable but Hester did change the game in a way that can't be measured by his stats.


Which begs the question, how exactly did Hester "change the game"?

Its not surprising that Brian Mitchell is 2nd to Hester in non-offensive TDs...like Hester, Mitchell wasn't good enough at RB to be a regular player so he spent his entire career as a return man. Hester was a great punt returner, an above-average kick returner, and did not play any of the coverage teams. He was not a better special teams player than Steve Tasker or Joshua Cribbs. Someone would have to convince me that Hester was indeed the greatest return man of all-time before I would consider him worthy of Canton. Career non-offensive TDs just shows Hester turned a niche job into a long career, IMO. There are many players more deserving than Hester. It would be like Cooperstown inducting Manny Mota because he was a great pinch-hitter.
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