Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Discuss candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the PFRA's Hall of Very Good

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby JameisLoseston » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:48 pm

In terms of the receivers while I prefer Otis Taylor over the all decade picks I think Powell and Hennigan belong in the HOF if it's a yes or no question. Bigger problem for me is how many other HOF worthy WR's there are who didn't play their whole careers in the AFL. This seems to be the issue at most positions. While AFL only HOF candidates didn't get a fair trial by the HOF before they became seniors it'd also be hard to justify inducting most of them over other seniors. I think the AFL issue should be handled seperate.


Tell me about it. WR is crazy backlogged. Benton, Howton, and Shofner, along with Powell and Hennigan, make up 5 of my, I don't know, 10 or so biggest HOF snubs. Dilweg and Lewellen are of course in there too, and I'll round it out with Gradishar, Jim Marshall (we know exactly why he's not in...), and Herschel Walker. The more I look at Ken Anderson, the more I feel he's actually too similar to quite a few solidly HOVG guys around that era who get talked about a lot less... Roman Gabriel, for instance, seems to me to have a comparable claim, and I wouldn't rank him too high on this list. Both are better picks than, say, Stabler though.
JameisLoseston
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:39 am

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby Bob Gill » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:15 pm

JameisLoseston wrote:Tell me about it. WR is crazy backlogged. Benton, Howton, and Shofner, along with Powell and Hennigan, make up 5 of my, I don't know, 10 or so biggest HOF snubs. Dilweg and Lewellen are of course in there too, and I'll round it out with Gradishar, Jim Marshall (we know exactly why he's not in...), and Herschel Walker. The more I look at Ken Anderson, the more I feel he's actually too similar to quite a few solidly HOVG guys around that era who get talked about a lot less... Roman Gabriel, for instance, seems to me to have a comparable claim, and I wouldn't rank him too high on this list. Both are better picks than, say, Stabler though.


For my money, I don't think I'd vote for Anderson, Gabriel OR Stabler.

I'd agree with most of your "snubs," with the exception of Hennigan, Marshall and Walker. I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means, but I think I know exactly why he's not in: He wasn't good enough. I mean, I'd rather have him in there than all these "contributors" they're putting in these days, but otherwise I don't think Marshall has any meaningful qualifications than at least a hundred other guys have. As for Hennigan, his career wasn't very long and his impressive stats were all compiled against subpar pass defenses in the AFL's first few seasons. I think Abner Haynes has a better case for AFL guys of that vintage, and I wouldn't vote for Haynes either.
Bob Gill
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby JameisLoseston » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:21 am

I will admit that Hennigan is a personal taste that some share and many don't. I have a hankering for big black numbers.

I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means


To be more clear: he's the guy who's chiefly known for running the wrong way, and that's the first thing literally everyone thinks about upon hearing his name. I'm sure that has hindered his candidacy, even if no one will consciously acknowledge it.

Weird thing I just noticed: I don't see any large negative amounts of fumble recovery yards recorded on his stat card.
JameisLoseston
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:39 am

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby racepug » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:56 pm

JameisLoseston wrote:Jim Marshall (we know exactly why he's not in...)

Please elaborate.
racepug
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:18 pm
Location: Somewhere in the continental U.S.

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby Brian wolf » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:38 am

If the HOF Board Of Directors decide to allow two seniors per year again, Marshall will have his chance but he is still a polarizing figure amongst fans and voters. Lots of sacks, fumble recoveries and contributions to consistent team wins but also low accolades, being overshadowed by two other teammates on the defensive line and defenses that were embarrased by opposing running attacks in the SBs ...
What really hurts Marshall though was his years from 1972-79, where he just couldnt get the QB down as much though his teammates, Page and Eller were putting up better numbers themselves ...
Brian wolf
 
Posts: 1371
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby rewing84 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:26 am

Brian wolf wrote:If the HOF Board Of Directors decide to allow two seniors per year again, Marshall will have his chance but he is still a polarizing figure amongst fans and voters. Lots of sacks, fumble recoveries and contributions to consistent team wins but also low accolades, being overshadowed by two other teammates on the defensive line and defenses that were embarrased by opposing running attacks in the SBs ...
What really hurts Marshall though was his years from 1972-79, where he just couldnt get the QB down as much though his teammates, Page and Eller were putting up better numbers themselves ...

In your opinion brian who is the best vikings senior
rewing84
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby conace21 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:37 am

JameisLoseston wrote:I will admit that Hennigan is a personal taste that some share and many don't. I have a hankering for big black numbers.

I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means


To be more clear: he's the guy who's chiefly known for running the wrong way, and that's the first thing literally everyone thinks about upon hearing his name. I'm sure that has hindered his candidacy, even if no one will consciously acknowledge it.

Weird thing I just noticed: I don't see any large negative amounts of fumble recovery yards recorded on his stat card.


Marshall hasn't been excluded from the HOF due to the wrong-way run. He doesn't have the postseason honors for Canton. He was a consensus 2nd Team All Pro in 1969, made a solitary 2nd Team All Pro squad in 1964, and in 1968, and a 2nd Team All Conference squad in 1971. Does being pretty to very good for a long time make you great?
conace21
 
Posts: 875
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby Brian wolf » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:23 am

Robert, I like Henry Thomas alot but like Marshall he has low accolades and was overshadowed by his two linemates in Randle and Doleman. Browner has a great case but I think I would go with Matt Blair, an underrated but complete linebacker ...
Brian wolf
 
Posts: 1371
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby SixtiesFan » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:54 am

conace21 wrote:
JameisLoseston wrote:I will admit that Hennigan is a personal taste that some share and many don't. I have a hankering for big black numbers.

I'm not sure what the parenthetical remark about Marshall means


To be more clear: he's the guy who's chiefly known for running the wrong way, and that's the first thing literally everyone thinks about upon hearing his name. I'm sure that has hindered his candidacy, even if no one will consciously acknowledge it.

Weird thing I just noticed: I don't see any large negative amounts of fumble recovery yards recorded on his stat card.


Marshall hasn't been excluded from the HOF due to the wrong-way run. He doesn't have the postseason honors for Canton. He was a consensus 2nd Team All Pro in 1969, made a solitary 2nd Team All Pro squad in 1964, and in 1968, and a 2nd Team All Conference squad in 1971. Does being pretty to very good for a long time make you great?


I've always thought the wrong-way run made Jim Marshall a "name" player. If he had the postseason honors he would long ago have made the HOF.
SixtiesFan
 
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Make a HOVG Case for any of these Players

Postby JameisLoseston » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:36 pm

Marshall is a weird player. He was a quality player for a very long time, but "quality player" is about as far as one could describe him at any moment. Basically the opposite of someone like Hennigan. So the counting numbers look like a HOFer, but it's tough to say he ever played like one. The harder I look, I'm not so sure how big a snub he really is. He's the definition of HOVG, though.

As for Herschel Walker, which I never addressed: that's pretty much a Pro Football Hall of Fame take, which you're free to share or not.
JameisLoseston
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:39 am

PreviousNext

Return to HOF and HOVG Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests