Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Citizen
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Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by Citizen »

It was a terrible way to lose, and it's no fun being on the bad end of a legendary play. But examining the claims made over the years by Al Davis, John Madden, Al LoCosale and others shows that a lot of their complaints are simply sour grapes:

The ball bounced off Fuqua: Highly unlikely, given its direction and velocity after the ricochet. Far more probable that it hit Tatum's chest plate.
The ball hit the ground before Harris caught it: Nonsense; plenty of proof that the catch was clean.
McMakin clipped Villapiano: Possibly, as the coaches' film shows, but Harris had sprinted past him by then. Call could go either way.
Nobody signaled touchdown: The side judge did, as did Swearingen after conferring with his crew.
Swearingen only confirmed the touchdown after he found out he couldn’t get protection as he left the stadium: No way of knowing, but it sure sounds like a tall tale.

From one man's perspective, of course.
SixtiesFan
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by SixtiesFan »

Al Davis always made a big thing of the NFL Establishment being against him and the Raiders.

I agree with the points made above. It was a perfectly legal play and a great finish. The NFL Films specials on the play with Davis, Madden, LoCasale, along with George Atkinson and Phil Villapiano giving out the sour grapes are entertaining.
RichardBak
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by RichardBak »

I was a Raiders fan, and disappointed they lost, but man, it was a helluva ending. Based on the stuff I've seen and read over the years, I've always thought it was a legal catch. I thought so watching the game in real time and haven't seen anything in the 50 years (!!) since that would make me change my mind.
slats7
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by slats7 »

Crazy that the Staubach comeback in San Francisco was the late game that day. Talk about a day of thrilling television.
Gary Najman
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by Gary Najman »

Citizen wrote:It was a terrible way to lose, and it's no fun being on the bad end of a legendary play. But examining the claims made over the years by Al Davis, John Madden, Al LoCosale and others shows that a lot of their complaints are simply sour grapes:

The ball bounced off Fuqua: Highly unlikely, given its direction and velocity after the ricochet. Far more probable that it hit Tatum's chest plate.
The ball hit the ground before Harris caught it: Nonsense; plenty of proof that the catch was clean.
McMakin clipped Villapiano: Possibly, as the coaches' film shows, but Harris had sprinted past him by then. Call could go either way.
Nobody signaled touchdown: The side judge did, as did Swearingen after conferring with his crew.
Swearingen only confirmed the touchdown after he found out he couldn’t get protection as he left the stadium: No way of knowing, but it sure sounds like a tall tale.

From one man's perspective, of course.
Just a correction, the official who called the touchdown was back judge Adrian Burk (#63), yes the former Eagles QB who threw 7 TD passes in a game 18 years prior. The side judge was introduced until 1978.
Citizen
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by Citizen »

Teo wrote:
Citizen wrote:It was a terrible way to lose, and it's no fun being on the bad end of a legendary play. But examining the claims made over the years by Al Davis, John Madden, Al LoCosale and others shows that a lot of their complaints are simply sour grapes:

The ball bounced off Fuqua: Highly unlikely, given its direction and velocity after the ricochet. Far more probable that it hit Tatum's chest plate.
The ball hit the ground before Harris caught it: Nonsense; plenty of proof that the catch was clean.
McMakin clipped Villapiano: Possibly, as the coaches' film shows, but Harris had sprinted past him by then. Call could go either way.
Nobody signaled touchdown: The side judge did, as did Swearingen after conferring with his crew.
Swearingen only confirmed the touchdown after he found out he couldn’t get protection as he left the stadium: No way of knowing, but it sure sounds like a tall tale.

From one man's perspective, of course.
Just a correction, the official who called the touchdown was back judge Adrian Burk (#63), yes the former Eagles QB who threw 7 TD passes in a game 18 years prior. The side judge was introduced until 1978.
Thanks. I'd originally written back judge, but was fooled when the replay showed Burk near the sideline.
Lee Elder
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by Lee Elder »

I've seen the same old films everyone else has seen. The ball was shoe top level or maybe even lower when Harris grabbed it. It looks like a catch to me. The bottom line is that it was ruled a catch by the officials on site and it goes down that way in history.

The matter of what player touched the ball before Harris grabbed it out of the air is different. No question about the force supplier. The ball bounced backwards the way it did because of the hit on the WR by the Raiders defender. But who did the ball actually hit? I think the ball struck both the defender and the WR at about the same time.

One other note on that play. The film shows Bradshaw running for his life, with Raider DEs getting after him. Harris does not throw a block on the play and might not have even known Bradshaw was in trouble. I saw an interview where Harris admits that he didn't do a good job of blocking. But he was very smart to realize that Bradshaw might need him. That's when he started drifting downfield, putting himself in position for one of the most famous plays in history.
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JohnR
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by JohnR »

Lee Elder wrote: The matter of what player touched the ball before Harris grabbed it out of the air is different. No question about the force supplier. The ball bounced backwards the way it did because of the hit on the WR by the Raiders defender. But who did the ball actually hit? I think the ball struck both the defender and the WR at about the same time.
Didn't the 1972 rules state (as Madden has claimed) that a simultaneous touch (Tatum's shoulder & Frenchy's fingers) would be ruled the same as an illegal double touch? I think a simultaneous touch is quite possible from watching film of the impact
Jay Z
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by Jay Z »

I think that given that Fuqua was running diagonally towards the ball it's basically impossible for Tatum to have not hit the ball.

Ironically, if Tatum plays the ball less aggressively, I think it's probably an incomplete pass or even an interception. I don't think Fuqua would have caught the pass anyway. That would have been a miraculous catch for a running back in 1972. I kind of understand how Tatum played it given the odd, improvised route Fuqua took, but maybe he would have done the same regardless.

In another year the Raiders can celebrate the 40th anniversary of their last Super Bowl win. Some of this is just pathetic at this point. Just win again, baby. I know at one point in the game Stabler attempted a "Holy Roller" forward fumble, which means that was something in the Raiders' playbook (or Stabler's) for a while. Hard to imagine Lamonica doing that. I don't think Davis had much to do with the Lamonica trade, that was more Rauch and Scotty Stirling's doing. Maybe caused Lamonica to not be seen as a "real Raider."
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JohnR
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Re: Raiders claims about the Immaculate Reception

Post by JohnR »

Jay Z wrote:I know at one point in the game Stabler attempted a "Holy Roller" forward fumble, which means that was something in the Raiders' playbook (or Stabler's) for a while. Hard to imagine Lamonica doing that.
Stabler had the ball knocked from his grasp in the '72 playoff. No way was he trying to extend that play. That fumble had the potential to bury them if Pitt had managed to get in the EZ. In the "holy roller" I think Stabler was simply trying to throw it away knowing he couldn't take the sack. There are just very low odds of success in strategically putting the ball on the ground, so I don't think there's any coaching at play here.
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