Steve McMichael: HOF?

[rewing84]

Sacks are a solid starting point and the honors and such.
To me the turning point is I think 7-8 "blue: years
or one or two "blue box" years.

Only negs is playing next to Hampton fewer double teams
but it's not like he never got doubled, he did...when Bears
moved Hampton to DE in 1985 in base---McMichael prob doubled
more...but when in 46 and a safety down, no one gets doubled

So that cannot be used against him, didn't have a ton
of TFLs but again, things like that are esoteric. He's well
respected by peers so I seem him as there. I've underrated him
I think.

That said, I rate Michael Dean Perry higher. I would like both in
but to me Perry passes the eye test more, had a lot more
tackles for loss, not as long a career, so sacks not as high
but Perry an excellent rusher...

A lot of DTs had high peaks but short careers (Ladd, Reid, Chambers
Millard) so they are not HOF...but McMichael may not get the momentum he deserves
but with they'd look at Perry, too.

They just don't look at tackles for loss and that a guy who gets 10 in a year is special
and Perry did that yearly...and for the losses--there are plenty for no gain (counts
for everyone) but I never counted those (should have)...

Anyway, I think McMichael's case is solid and sacks are maybe only half or so of the case

How many blue years does McMichael have

[JohnTurney]

How many blue years does McMichael have

don't have it handy, it's 7 or 8 with 1-2 with one blue box

there are 17 traits...and 3 boxes ... the traits go into boxes
traits include hands, feet, speed strength, technique vs various
blocks, hustle, and others.

3 boxes are run, pass, nickel.
Pass and nickel are separate because technique vs pass in base defense
is often different than technique in nickel (jet)

anyway you can have one blue box and not be considered a true blue...

Someone like a Freeney could be blue pass, blue nickel and orange (low) run and be a blue player overall.
But someone like a Reggie White could be blue all three in a given year...

but the stuff is more detailed than that--the grade (1-9) and color (yellow-blue) are summaries.
Each trait has a color ... "blue" speed "orange" hands for a WR who cannot catch for example

[rewing84]

How many blue years does McMichael have

don't have it handy, it's 7 or 8 with 1-2 with one blue box

there are 17 traits...and 3 boxes ... the traits go into boxes
traits include hands, feet, speed strength, technique vs various
blocks, hustle, and others.

3 boxes are run, pass, nickel.
Pass and nickel are separate because technique vs pass in base defense
is often different than technique in nickel (jet)

anyway you can have one blue box and not be considered a true blue...

Someone like a Freeney could be blue pass, blue nickel and orange (low) run and be a blue player overall.
But someone like a Reggie White could be blue all three in a given year...

but the stuff is more detailed than that--the grade (1-9) and color (yellow-blue) are summaries.
Each trait has a color ... "blue" speed "orange" hands for a WR who cannot catch for example

Gotcha thanks for the clarification

[JohnTurney]

Michael Dean Perry higher > McMichael

Stats are not everything, scout stuff not everything, "alls" not everything
nor are quotes...people have differing ideas on the weight to give to each.

As I posted above--my eye test, for what it's worth has MDP>SM

McMichael more sacks...and there's reasons for that but I do wish
Perry would get more notice.

Voters don't even consider tackles for loss because they were not around
then or cannot be found easily when they were

And then there is if you want to count tackles for no gain..over the years
I never have but there is a good case to count them ...

But to me Perry was a quick penetrator, messed up run game when allowed
to (Belichick kind of held Perry back for a year with 2-gap) and was also
a good rusher...and underarm guy, low/leverage.

Knees went bad on him so peak a bit shorter... but always felt he was elite.
but gets no notice, not even in top 31.

With 31 guys on a 35-man list - I suspect the ties were 6 or more guys with one vote
but possible it was two, cannot know for sure...but a couple of the WRs on the 31
getting more votes than MDP even if it was one each is head-scratching

Maybe next year someone can somehow get voters to look at TFLs and they
can even dig through themselves, anyone can...but Perry was among the best
ever at stuffs plus sacks from the inside over a 5-6 year period.

[Brian wolf]

What people have to like is McMichael fighting to get on the field. Hardly played his first three years but took off in 1983, having a great game against Montana and the 49ers. Basically got to the QB every year except 90, where he was injured. Recovered with three more good seasons before ending with GB ... I believe he would have been more effective in his career, if the Bears could have replaced Mad Mac ... the Bear defense was better with more rest.

[JohnTurney]

What people have to like is McMichael fighting to get on the field.

gutty guy...self-made (juice)...but so were plenty of linemen from 70s and 80s in HOF (and out).
a lot to like...can see possible final 12, but not being higher than that ...
had solid creds but to me quite a few ahead of him...

All-Pro ceiling, not a DPOY ceiling kind of guy ....

[rewing84]

What people have to like is McMichael fighting to get on the field.

gutty guy...self-made (juice)...but so were plenty of linemen from 70s and 80s in HOF (and out).
a lot to like...can see possible final 12, but not being higher than that ...
had solid creds but to me quite a few ahead of him...

All-Pro ceiling, not a DPOY ceiling kind of guy ....

who do you have ahead of him john im curious

[JohnTurney]

who do you have ahead of him john im curious

We all have a bias---and my his pro blockers/tacklers (non-skill)

this is my 12--but if you asked me in a year it might be
slightly different... but very roughly, something like this
a group one and group two, if I took more time might be able
to separate into three groups

the closest calls, for me, are between maybe 8-18 or so

Randy Gradishar
Albert Lewis
Al Wistert
Mike Kenn
Joe Jacoby
Sterling Sharpe

Bob Kuechenberg
Clay Matthews
Eddie Meador
Steve McMichael
Maxie Baughan
Art Powell

[rewing84]

Fully agree 100% with your picks john those are the seniors i highly endorse its a close call between powell and sharpe though

[JohnTurney]

Fully agree 100% with your picks john those are the seniors i highly endorse its a close call between powell and sharpe though

Angie will be upset but the early AFl stats *somewhat* questionable...hard to hold against the player, though--but I get it
if you do some metrics, per game, era adjusted stuff, Powell represents well.

I've done some...based on Football Perspective and Gridfe theories and people could play with them
for some give or take but Powell has good case, the only question is how much of a call it-pre-1963ish
"discount" to AFL stats

Different people would have different opinions on that.

Also, hardest cut was Geoge Kunz----had him 13th and went back and forth between guys