TanksAndSpartans wrote:@Zero26, what do you think? My reasoning was I didn't like Tinsley as all-decade for just two seasons, so my conclusion was not to have another end. Would you have added another end to the All-30s team? Smith? Carter? Malone? Were any of them known for blocking ro defense? Any testimonials? Honestly, I was close to including Smith, but felt a little uncomfortable going with a player I had never heard of on the basis of his PFR card. I'm persuadable in this case, but if no one really stood out, I'm ok to leave it too. Might this be the least competitive position for any all-decade team? No one seems to jump out an an obvious 3rd or 4th end.Zero26 wrote:Smith leads pre Hutson WR's(who played more than 2 seasons) in receiving yards per game. Tinsley overshadowed him for sure with his 2 incredible seasons that got him on the all decade team. While I would have otherwise given that spot to Joe Carter it might have went to Bill Smith(you put 2 on your all decade team curious who your 2 would be if you put 4?). Given that Benton who IMO is a no brainer HOF(is in HOVG) wasn't inducted I think whoever got that spot still wouldn't be in HOF though as they'd be a borderline case. Tinsley didn't get in because his career was too short. This was a position and era that best demonstrates the ambuigity of all pro as there were so many wide receivers to choose between. Once Hutson came on the scene that meant there was only one first team all pro spot left each year(which Tinsley promptly took for 2 seasons). To put this in perspective Wayne Milner made the HOF while never making a 1st or 2nd all pro team. He was an honorable mention most years as was his teammate Charley Malone who also never made it.
I also agree Tinsley's career is just too short. I get their logic as during his only 2 full seasons he was clearly the 2nd best WR of the decade but 29 games is far below any reasonable cutoff even for that era(less than half of Battles 60 games). Clearly the all decade voters are more lax with longevity requirements than HOF voters and there's a whole class of early era all decade players who didn't play long enough to make the Hall but even in this class Tinsley stands out(Whizzer White has 33 games).TanksAndSpartans wrote:@Zero26, what do you think? My reasoning was I didn't like Tinsley as all-decade for just two seasons, so my conclusion was not to have another end. Would you have added another end to the All-30s team? Smith? Carter? Malone? Were any of them known for blocking ro defense? Any testimonials? Honestly, I was close to including Smith, but felt a little uncomfortable going with a player I had never heard of on the basis of his PFR card. I'm persuadable in this case, but if no one really stood out, I'm ok to leave it too. Might this be the least competitive position for any all-decade team? No one seems to jump out an an obvious 3rd or 4th end.Zero26 wrote:Smith leads pre Hutson WR's(who played more than 2 seasons) in receiving yards per game. Tinsley overshadowed him for sure with his 2 incredible seasons that got him on the all decade team. While I would have otherwise given that spot to Joe Carter it might have went to Bill Smith(you put 2 on your all decade team curious who your 2 would be if you put 4?). Given that Benton who IMO is a no brainer HOF(is in HOVG) wasn't inducted I think whoever got that spot still wouldn't be in HOF though as they'd be a borderline case. Tinsley didn't get in because his career was too short. This was a position and era that best demonstrates the ambuigity of all pro as there were so many wide receivers to choose between. Once Hutson came on the scene that meant there was only one first team all pro spot left each year(which Tinsley promptly took for 2 seasons). To put this in perspective Wayne Milner made the HOF while never making a 1st or 2nd all pro team. He was an honorable mention most years as was his teammate Charley Malone who also never made it.
I'd put Joe Carter ahead of Smith and maybe Hewitt he's got the most complete resume stat wise in terms of both yardage and TDs. Of the receivers drafted in the 1930s his numbers are the best besides Hutson, Benton and Tinsley and that trio changed what good WR stats looked like. The other receivers who scored 20(or even 15) touchdowns including Hewitt had poor yardage stats(for elite receivers) and likewise the other receivers who had good yardage typically didn't score that often with Smith being in this crowd. If there is a fifth HOF WR from this era(assuming Benton gets in eventually)I think it should be Carter. In terms of career stats Carter retired third in receiving yards behind Hutson and Benton 4th in catches behind Hutson, Benton and Malone and 4th in receiving touchdowns among receivers(McNally had more but he was a back).
I would take out Milner and put in Smith for the fourth spot but you could make an argument for keeping him cause A he made the HOF and B reviewing the PFRA All pro file. Which brings us to how these receivers were viewed at the time. Given there are no pro bowls in this era I use all pro honorable mentions as my alternative preferred accolade.
Here's a list of how many Honorable Mentions(or better) each receiver got. These start in 1932 and are the offical teams. These are receivers drafted in the 1930s some of these include honors in the 1940s but it gives you an idea of how many seasons they were considered elite WR's.
11)Hutson
7)Hewitt
7)Carter
6)Milner
6)Poole
5)Benton
5)Bill Smith
4)Perry Scwartz
4)Charley Malone
4)Bill Karr
4)Milt Gantenbium
4)Harry Ebding
4)George Wilson
While Milner never made an all pro team it does appear he was one of the most consistant elite receivers in the NFL and that he wasn't elected to the all decade team and HOF purely on his postseason play. I'd say it's close between Smith and Milner for the 4th spot.
In terms of other options Scwartz like Benton had too much of his career in the 40s when his stats would not be quite as impressive as in the 30s(his stats also dove when he lost his HOF QB). Malone career statwise besides Carter looks the nicest and his stats are slightly better than his HOF teammate Milner however he never made an all pro team from any selector. This stands out in a bad way in this group because there were a lot of unoffical all pro teams(for example Milner made 2 unoffical teams). In any case I'd support all of these players except Poole, Gantenbium and Wilson in the HOVG.
