Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

What season do you all think that each of these QBs 'clinched' their inevitable future spot in Canton?

And what season did each one clinch 1st ballot? I know just about all of you in here feel that you're either in the Hall or not - 1st ballot-or-not unnecessary and I fundamentally agree - but being that it's the way it seems to go (only so many can get in each year), may as well throw it in.

For Peyton, I guess I'd have to say that not only did he clinch it before finally winning his Ring, but also clinched 1st ballot before '06 as well. Does '04 & '05 respectively sound good? Brady? Perhaps a simple one - '04 and 1st ballot in '07. Brees? I guess '09 just to get in and '11 for 1st ballot; '13 at the extreme latest.

Your thoughts?

74_75_78_79_ wrote:What season do you all think that each of these QBs 'clinched' their inevitable future spot in Canton?

And what season did each one clinch 1st ballot? I know just about all of you in here feel that you're either in the Hall or not - 1st ballot-or-not unnecessary and I fundamentally agree - but being that it's the way it seems to go (only so many can get in each year), may as well throw it in.

For Peyton, I guess I'd have to say that not only did he clinch it before finally winning his Ring, but also clinched 1st ballot before '06 as well. Does '04 & '05 respectively sound good? Brady? Perhaps a simple one - '04 and 1st ballot in '07. Brees? I guess '09 just to get in and '11 for 1st ballot; '13 at the extreme latest.

Your thoughts?

I agree on Peyton, the ring likely clinched it, this is, if he ws never to play after that. With Brady 3rd ring, Brees, I really can't guess, but maybe, 11 or 12 as you say

74_75_78_79_ wrote:What season do you all think that each of these QBs 'clinched' their inevitable future spot in Canton?

And what season did each one clinch 1st ballot? I know just about all of you in here feel that you're either in the Hall or not - 1st ballot-or-not unnecessary and I fundamentally agree - but being that it's the way it seems to go (only so many can get in each year), may as well throw it in.

For Peyton, I guess I'd have to say that not only did he clinch it before finally winning his Ring, but also clinched 1st ballot before '06 as well. Does '04 & '05 respectively sound good? Brady? Perhaps a simple one - '04 and 1st ballot in '07. Brees? I guess '09 just to get in and '11 for 1st ballot; '13 at the extreme latest.

Your thoughts?

I guess you're talking in the case of the Bus Test. In the case of Brady you're saying 2004, meaning he is in with less than four full seasons under his belt. I think that is a little too less, as he had yet to have the monster passing seasons. By 2004 Brady had yet to throw 30 TD's in a season or for 4000 yards. Comparing Brady 2000 (6 attempts) thru 2004 against Terrell Davis 2005-08, and having to choose against the two of them for the HOF, and despite the three rings to two, I would have to go with Davis. Each team pulled a big upset in the Super Bowl, but New England's three Super Bowls were won by FG's, although Brady did put up a last minute drive in two of them. I like the fact that Elway was a guy who had gotten there three times and failed, and Davis was the guy who put him over the top. Davis gets a huge point for the 2,000 yard rushing season in the midst of playing for one of the all time great QB's who was at his peak. This is not to denigrate Brady in any way, by 2005 Brady I think clearly passed the Bus Test as he had his first monster passing season, and I would say that was the year, not 2004.

It's not just Super Bowls rings which rate who should be in the HOF and who should not, a man's HOF's case should be more like bullet points on a resume, and the number of Super Bowl rings go at the top of the list of bullet points. Number of All Pro/Pro Bowls would be up there near the top, along with single game and career records set, times led in categories like rushing yards or TD passes, big games, records in postseason games. He might have a bullet point for a strategic innovation or technique he developed, or some other way he changed the game, and perhaps a bullet point if there is a very short (one sentence max) about how he might have been a better player than his stats suggested; this would cover the Gale Sayers injury type arguments. That is, I think, how you should begin the process of determining who is and is not a HOFer. Like a resume, it fits on a single piece of paper.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:What season do you all think that each of these QBs 'clinched' their inevitable future spot in Canton?

And what season did each one clinch 1st ballot? I know just about all of you in here feel that you're either in the Hall or not - 1st ballot-or-not unnecessary and I fundamentally agree - but being that it's the way it seems to go (only so many can get in each year), may as well throw it in.

For Peyton, I guess I'd have to say that not only did he clinch it before finally winning his Ring, but also clinched 1st ballot before '06 as well. Does '04 & '05 respectively sound good? Brady? Perhaps a simple one - '04 and 1st ballot in '07. Brees? I guess '09 just to get in and '11 for 1st ballot; '13 at the extreme latest.

Your thoughts?

I guess you're talking in the case of the Bus Test. In the case of Brady you're saying 2004, meaning he is in with less than four full seasons under his belt. I think that is a little too less, as he had yet to have the monster passing seasons. By 2004 Brady had yet to throw 30 TD's in a season or for 4000 yards. Comparing Brady 2000 (6 attempts) thru 2004 against Terrell Davis 2005-08, and having to choose against the two of them for the HOF, and despite the three rings to two, I would have to go with Davis. Each team pulled a big upset in the Super Bowl, but New England's three Super Bowls were won by FG's, although Brady did put up a last minute drive in two of them. I like the fact that Elway was a guy who had gotten there three times and failed, and Davis was the guy who put him over the top. Davis gets a huge point for the 2,000 yard rushing season in the midst of playing for one of the all time great QB's who was at his peak. This is not to denigrate Brady in any way, by 2005 Brady I think clearly passed the Bus Test as he had his first monster passing season, and I would say that was the year, not 2004.

It's not just Super Bowls rings which rate who should be in the HOF and who should not, a man's HOF's case should be more like bullet points on a resume, and the number of Super Bowl rings go at the top of the list of bullet points. Number of All Pro/Pro Bowls would be up there near the top, along with single game and career records set, times led in categories like rushing yards or TD passes, big games, records in postseason games. He might have a bullet point for a strategic innovation or technique he developed, or some other way he changed the game, and perhaps a bullet point if there is a very short (one sentence max) about how he might have been a better player than his stats suggested; this would cover the Gale Sayers injury type arguments. That is, I think, how you should begin the process of determining who is and is not a HOFer. Like a resume, it fits on a single piece of paper.

Except perhaps in the case of a QB, I don't think Super Bowl rings should be among the bullet points at all.

Not a big Hall of Fame guy. Love the concept, but it's been ruined by people, i.e., the voters, that wouldn't know prowess if it hit them over the head.

That said, Brady and Manning are slam dunks. As far what year they clinched it, let others debate.

But Drew Brees? There are ring guys and guys that don't believe in rings. Im a ring guy. Get it done on the world's biggest stage and that gets my attention. He did.

He's also one of the most overrated QBs ever. People who live in the dangerous world of you're right/you're wrong know him as a hothouse flower, a scheme guy. A guy who will rack up 5,000 dragon kills one week and stink up the joint the minute the stars aren't in the Saints' favor.

The Saints had one or two great years. Since then the league has figured out Payton's offense, and Payton has yet to adjust. Oh, the execution is still good enough to get them a game or two above or below .500, but they've been treading water.

The book is out on both these guys. Outdoors, go against. A great defense? Go against. A D-line that can knock down passes? Go against.

Brees has great stats, and he expertly runs Payton's offense when the stars are aligned. But no way would I put him in the category of killers like Manning and Brady who have proven time and time again they can rise above the deep sh*t they occasionally find themselves in.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:What season do you all think that each of these QBs 'clinched' their inevitable future spot in Canton?

And what season did each one clinch 1st ballot? I know just about all of you in here feel that you're either in the Hall or not - 1st ballot-or-not unnecessary and I fundamentally agree - but being that it's the way it seems to go (only so many can get in each year), may as well throw it in.

For Peyton, I guess I'd have to say that not only did he clinch it before finally winning his Ring, but also clinched 1st ballot before '06 as well. Does '04 & '05 respectively sound good? Brady? Perhaps a simple one - '04 and 1st ballot in '07. Brees? I guess '09 just to get in and '11 for 1st ballot; '13 at the extreme latest.

Your thoughts?

I guess you're talking in the case of the Bus Test. In the case of Brady you're saying 2004, meaning he is in with less than four full seasons under his belt. I think that is a little too less, as he had yet to have the monster passing seasons. By 2004 Brady had yet to throw 30 TD's in a season or for 4000 yards. Comparing Brady 2000 (6 attempts) thru 2004 against Terrell Davis 2005-08, and having to choose against the two of them for the HOF, and despite the three rings to two, I would have to go with Davis. Each team pulled a big upset in the Super Bowl, but New England's three Super Bowls were won by FG's, although Brady did put up a last minute drive in two of them. I like the fact that Elway was a guy who had gotten there three times and failed, and Davis was the guy who put him over the top. Davis gets a huge point for the 2,000 yard rushing season in the midst of playing for one of the all time great QB's who was at his peak. This is not to denigrate Brady in any way, by 2005 Brady I think clearly passed the Bus Test as he had his first monster passing season, and I would say that was the year, not 2004.

It's not just Super Bowls rings which rate who should be in the HOF and who should not, a man's HOF's case should be more like bullet points on a resume, and the number of Super Bowl rings go at the top of the list of bullet points. Number of All Pro/Pro Bowls would be up there near the top, along with single game and career records set, times led in categories like rushing yards or TD passes, big games, records in postseason games. He might have a bullet point for a strategic innovation or technique he developed, or some other way he changed the game, and perhaps a bullet point if there is a very short (one sentence max) about how he might have been a better player than his stats suggested; this would cover the Gale Sayers injury type arguments. That is, I think, how you should begin the process of determining who is and is not a HOFer. Like a resume, it fits on a single piece of paper.

It was you guys on this site who 'taught' me how to better judge if someone should or shouldn't be in the Hall. I used to be the typical, "Oh, he was good, get him in the Hall already! What the heck?" Still have ways to go but I can't help to think that 3 Rings (not 2 like Plunkett) and in four years, mind you, would have been hard for the voters to ignore. Maybe I'm wrong. You definitely got a great point about Brady's 2005 campaign. If three Rings wouldn't have been enough by the end of '04 then the following year would have done the trick as far as getting him in at all. Had Jimmy Johnson still been with Dallas in '95 (winning that 3rd Ring in 4 years) then left after that, it would likely be the same kind of debate. Did Hoodie 'clinch' Canton after SBXXXIX vs Eagles?

Peyton Manning now 4-1 in AFC Championship games. Only John Elway had a better record as starting QB (since merger).

Peyton had $2M incentives for winning AFC championship game and Super Bowl after accepting (having to accept) a $4M paycut for this season.

Tom Brady is now 2-7 vs. Broncos in Denver. He has only beaten Danny Kanell and Tim Tebow.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Did Hoodie 'clinch' Canton after SBXXXIX vs Eagles?

With the three rings plus the two for being the DC under Parcells with the Giants in 1986 and 1990, I would say definitely, since both teams were known for their tough defenses.