Peyton Manning calls it a career

[oldecapecod11]

by 74_75_78_79_ » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:36 pm
"...The Eternal Manning-VS-Brady Debate? I really don't know the answer for sure. To try figuring that out, I feel that one must first do what is very notorious on this site and that's doing a what-if/hypothetical. How would Peyton have done as a Patriot under Belichick. How would Brady have been as a Colt throughout the '00s and then as a Bronco these past four years?.."

Nonsense! First, it is not and will not be an "Eternal...Debate."
The conjecture has been less than ten years and it is over. Done! Finis!

The "what-if" series are even greater nonsense. They did not happen and they ain't gonna happen.
Pearl Harbor happened. Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened. Card-Pitt happened. The Steagles happened.
If they had not, a few very promising players would have their names on these pages more often
and baseball would still be waiting for someone to break Ted Williams' record.
The Kraut Line would have won the Stanley Cup and Bird and Magic would be compared with Paul Arizin.
"What-if" is silly and it is fantasy and it's part of why children cannot sign their names today.
In the real world of "Great" NFL Quarterbacks, why not treat it like the Titanic?
Following that tragedy, only two things mattered - Lost and Survived.
Great Quarterbacks are in two categories:
Those who made their coach / team: Unitas, Baugh, Manning
Those who were made by their coach / team: Brady, Montana
If you want to add a third:
Those who were neither and are still great: Marino
That's the penthouse. Everyone else is far below on the numbered floors.

[JohnH19]

I agree that we agree that's Mt.Rushmore, but I must say, we forget the down times these guys had as well. I wrote a piece a while back on the 49ers Shotgun Offense beating the Colts in 1960, it was Unitas and the turnovers that beat the Colts that day. Aging Peyton was hard to watch, but I explicitly recall aging Montana trying to throw the ball away out of bounds as a Chief and getting Intercepted, because he couldn't get enough on the throw away - luckily I've not seen enough of Unitas with San Diego to recall the same.

I think this is precisely the kind of thing that #1 we need some distance from before making proclamations and #2 before we make proclamations about generations before us we need to ensure that they're well informed. I've seen bad Unitas, bad Montana and a little bad Graham. Unfortunately we're likely to see bad Brady soon as well. They're all great - I'm kind of a Unitas guy - but I'm not sure any are demonstrably better than the others. I think Peyton "could" fall in that class.

Baugh was the first glamorous passer (not to mention his tremendous punting and excellence in the defensive backfield), Graham was the game's biggest winner and a tremendous playmaker, Unitas was the greatest field general, and Montana was the game's coolest assassin. Of the four, only Unitas's career ended badly but that did nothing to diminish his career and really has nothing to do with my previous comment.

I would like to know how anyone else, at this point in time, can possibly be rated higher than Manning and Brady. IMO, there is no one, when taking everything into account, quite at that same level.

-Tarkenton and Marino didn't win a championship.
-Favre accomplished everything but most agree that he could have done more with better decision making.
-Starr won five championships but he could be viewed as the first (and best) of the "game manager" quarterbacks. Bart never threw 300 passes in a season.
-Luckman is underrated because he played on loaded Bears teams and he was probably somewhat overshadowed by Baugh.

The list of greats goes on and on but I don't believe that any of them can match the credentials of Manning and Brady for qualification on a six headed Mt. Rushmore.

[mwald]

by 74_75_78_79_ » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:36 pm
"...The Eternal Manning-VS-Brady Debate? I really don't know the answer for sure. To try figuring that out, I feel that one must first do what is very notorious on this site and that's doing a what-if/hypothetical. How would Peyton have done as a Patriot under Belichick. How would Brady have been as a Colt throughout the '00s and then as a Bronco these past four years?.."

Nonsense! First, it is not and will not be an "Eternal...Debate."
The conjecture has been less than ten years and it is over. Done! Finis!

The "what-if" series are even greater nonsense. They did not happen and they ain't gonna happen.
Pearl Harbor happened. Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened. Card-Pitt happened. The Steagles happened.
If they had not, a few very promising players would have their names on these pages more often
and baseball would still be waiting for someone to break Ted Williams' record.
The Kraut Line would have won the Stanley Cup and Bird and Magic would be compared with Paul Arizin.
"What-if" is silly and it is fantasy and it's part of why children cannot sign their names today.
In the real world of "Great" NFL Quarterbacks, why not treat it like the Titanic?
Following that tragedy, only two things mattered - Lost and Survived.
Great Quarterbacks are in two categories:
Those who made their coach / team: Unitas, Baugh, Manning
Those who were made by their coach / team: Brady, Montana
If you want to add a third:
Those who were neither and are still great: Marino
That's the penthouse. Everyone else is far below on the numbered floors.

Walt Whitman in da house!

[74_75_78_79_]

by 74_75_78_79_ » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:36 pm
"...The Eternal Manning-VS-Brady Debate? I really don't know the answer for sure. To try figuring that out, I feel that one must first do what is very notorious on this site and that's doing a what-if/hypothetical. How would Peyton have done as a Patriot under Belichick. How would Brady have been as a Colt throughout the '00s and then as a Bronco these past four years?.."

Nonsense! First, it is not and will not be an "Eternal...Debate."
The conjecture has been less than ten years and it is over. Done! Finis!

The "what-if" series are even greater nonsense. They did not happen and they ain't gonna happen.
Pearl Harbor happened. Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened. Card-Pitt happened. The Steagles happened.
If they had not, a few very promising players would have their names on these pages more often
and baseball would still be waiting for someone to break Ted Williams' record.
The Kraut Line would have won the Stanley Cup and Bird and Magic would be compared with Paul Arizin.
"What-if" is silly and it is fantasy and it's part of why children cannot sign their names today.
In the real world of "Great" NFL Quarterbacks, why not treat it like the Titanic?
Following that tragedy, only two things mattered - Lost and Survived.
Great Quarterbacks are in two categories:
Those who made their coach / team: Unitas, Baugh, Manning
Those who were made by their coach / team: Brady, Montana
If you want to add a third:
Those who were neither and are still great: Marino
That's the penthouse. Everyone else is far below on the numbered floors.

You're KILLING me! Killing me, lol.

[oldecapecod11]

Walt Whitman in da house!

Sorry to disappoint you.
There was a Josh Whitman, TE (2001) and an S.J. Whitman, DB (1951-1954) but no Walt.

[mwald]

Walt Whitman in da house!

Sorry to disappoint you.
There was a Josh Whitman, TE (2001) and an S.J. Whitman, DB (1951-1954) but no Walt.

Was referring to the writing style. The lists, the pronouncements, the tendency to include seemingly unrelated subject matter, the organic vs studied knowledge, and, eh, the slight but refreshing hint of insanity .

It was meant as a compliment, OCC.

[Rupert Patrick]

Manning and Brady are the NFL's version of Yankees and Dodgers, or Lakers and Celtics, or Ali and Frazier. A dozen books will be written about them over the next couple decades, I think their rivalry has helped define the NFL over the past 15 seasons. I think the 2006 AFC Championship game is the greatest football game I've seen of the past 20 years, and is one of the half dozen greatest games ever played. In pro football history, no rivalry has produced as many classic games with high stakes as the Brady-Manning games has.

I think it's hard to knock Peyton for only winning two Super Bowls, especially since he seemingly had to compete against Brady every year in the AFC playoffs. From 2001-15, Brady and Manning won ten AFC Championships between them. If they had been in different leagues, they might have faced off three or four times in the Super Bowl against one another.

[mwald]

Manning and Brady are the NFL's version of Yankees and Dodgers, or Lakers and Celtics, or Ali and Frazier. A dozen books will be written about them over the next couple decades, I think their rivalry has helped define the NFL over the past 15 seasons. I think the 2006 AFC Championship game is the greatest football game I've seen of the past 20 years, and is one of the half dozen greatest games ever played. In pro football history, no rivalry has produced as many classic games with high stakes as the Brady-Manning games has.

I think it's hard to knock Peyton for only winning two Super Bowls, especially since he seemingly had to compete against Brady every year in the AFC playoffs. From 2001-15, Brady and Manning won ten AFC Championships between them. If they had been in different leagues, they might have faced off three or four times in the Super Bowl against one another.

That was indeed some great football we were treated to. It was the Montana-Marino rivalry that could have been but wasn't.

There's a feeling of a vacuum now, and the question of what will come along to take its place.

[rhickok1109]

Manning and Brady are the NFL's version of Yankees and Dodgers, or Lakers and Celtics, or Ali and Frazier. A dozen books will be written about them over the next couple decades, I think their rivalry has helped define the NFL over the past 15 seasons. I think the 2006 AFC Championship game is the greatest football game I've seen of the past 20 years, and is one of the half dozen greatest games ever played. In pro football history, no rivalry has produced as many classic games with high stakes as the Brady-Manning games has.

I think it's hard to knock Peyton for only winning two Super Bowls, especially since he seemingly had to compete against Brady every year in the AFC playoffs. From 2001-15, Brady and Manning won ten AFC Championships between them. If they had been in different leagues, they might have faced off three or four times in the Super Bowl against one another.

I don't know if competing against Brady in the playoffs was such a problem. It happened five times and Manning won three of them.

[mwald]

I don't know if competing against Brady in the playoffs was such a problem. It happened five times and Manning won three of them.

Yeah, Brady dominated him early but Manning chipped away late and passed him. But for many folks Manning will always be second fiddle because of those early matchups. What's the saying...you never forgive a first impression?