Statistical Question

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TanksAndSpartans
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Statistical Question

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

I'm showing 4 seasons of a QB and RB below. Is it fair to say the performance of both dropped off significantly in season 4?

I don't suspect anyone will disagree on the RB - he's down in every area.

I'm weaker at interpreting QB statistics though. I feel comfortable saying season 4 isn't as good for the QB, but can I say its significantly worse?

Thanks!
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Bob Gill
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by Bob Gill »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:I'm showing 4 seasons of a QB and RB below. Is it fair to say the performance of both dropped off significantly in season 4?
I don't suspect anyone will disagree on the RB - he's down in every area.
I'm weaker at interpreting QB statistics though. I feel comfortable saying season 4 isn't as good for the QB, but can I say its significantly worse?
I think that's a fair statement. He's down in every single category -- and I'd say the fact that he quit after that season confirms the decline.
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TanksAndSpartans
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

Thanks Bob!

For the QB, if you had to write a sentence or two, would anyone emphasize anything other than down across the board? The rating or yards per attempt maybe?
rhickok1109
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by rhickok1109 »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Bob!

For the QB, if you had to write a sentence or two, would anyone emphasize anything other than down across the board? The rating or yards per attempt maybe?
The stat I always look at for a QB is yards per attempt.
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TanksAndSpartans
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

Thanks Ralph!
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Ronfitch
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by Ronfitch »

rhickok1109 wrote:
TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Bob!

For the QB, if you had to write a sentence or two, would anyone emphasize anything other than down across the board? The rating or yards per attempt maybe?
The stat I always look at for a QB is yards per attempt.
Long ago - on the old forum, I believe - I asked the group something like, "What is the most consistent or important stat that appears for the team that wins the game" and the response that came up several times cited Allen Barra's mention of either yards per attempt by the winning team's quarterback being the answer, from his books in the late '80s. I was thinking that a team stat would be most cited, such as turnover ratio.

Since then, that is what I have looked for as well.
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rhickok1109
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by rhickok1109 »

Ronfitch wrote:
rhickok1109 wrote:
TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Bob!

For the QB, if you had to write a sentence or two, would anyone emphasize anything other than down across the board? The rating or yards per attempt maybe?
The stat I always look at for a QB is yards per attempt.
Long ago - on the old forum, I believe - I asked the group something like, "What is the most consistent or important stat that appears for the team that wins the game" and the response that came up several times cited Allen Barra's mention of either yards per attempt by the winning team's quarterback being the answer, from his books in the late '80s. I was thinking that a team stat would be most cited, such as turnover ratio.

Since then, that is what I have looked for as well.
I can't remember who did it, but I have seen a study using multiple regression analysis that showed a very strong correlation between "adjusted yards per pass attempt" and winning. The adjusted yards per pass attempt was calculated with this formula: AdjYards = (yards + 20 x TDs– 45 x INTs) / Attempts,
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Ronfitch
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by Ronfitch »

rhickok1109 wrote:
Ronfitch wrote:
rhickok1109 wrote: The stat I always look at for a QB is yards per attempt.
Long ago - on the old forum, I believe - I asked the group something like, "What is the most consistent or important stat that appears for the team that wins the game" and the response that came up several times cited Allen Barra's mention of either yards per attempt by the winning team's quarterback being the answer, from his books in the late '80s. I was thinking that a team stat would be most cited, such as turnover ratio.

Since then, that is what I have looked for as well.
I can't remember who did it, but I have seen a study using multiple regression analysis that showed a very strong correlation between "adjusted yards per pass attempt" and winning. The adjusted yards per pass attempt was calculated with this formula: AdjYards = (yards + 20 x TDs– 45 x INTs) / Attempts,
This?

http://www.footballperspective.com/nfl- ... k-13-2014/
"Now, I want pizza." 
 - Ken Crippen
rhickok1109
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by rhickok1109 »

Ronfitch wrote:
rhickok1109 wrote:
Ronfitch wrote: Long ago - on the old forum, I believe - I asked the group something like, "What is the most consistent or important stat that appears for the team that wins the game" and the response that came up several times cited Allen Barra's mention of either yards per attempt by the winning team's quarterback being the answer, from his books in the late '80s. I was thinking that a team stat would be most cited, such as turnover ratio.

Since then, that is what I have looked for as well.
I can't remember who did it, but I have seen a study using multiple regression analysis that showed a very strong correlation between "adjusted yards per pass attempt" and winning. The adjusted yards per pass attempt was calculated with this formula: AdjYards = (yards + 20 x TDs– 45 x INTs) / Attempts,
This?

http://www.footballperspective.com/nfl- ... k-13-2014/
It looks as if they're using the formula but I don't see the actual formula anywhere on that page.
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Ronfitch
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Re: Statistical Question

Post by Ronfitch »

rhickok1109 wrote:
Ronfitch wrote:
rhickok1109 wrote: I can't remember who did it, but I have seen a study using multiple regression analysis that showed a very strong correlation between "adjusted yards per pass attempt" and winning. The adjusted yards per pass attempt was calculated with this formula: AdjYards = (yards + 20 x TDs– 45 x INTs) / Attempts,
This?

http://www.footballperspective.com/nfl- ... k-13-2014/
It looks as if they're using the formula but I don't see the actual formula anywhere on that page.

They don't post it as a formula but rather write it out:

"... the NFL average Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt — defined as gross passing yards, plus 20 yards for every touchdown pass, minus 45 yards for every interception, and minus sack yards, all divided by the total number of pass attempts plus sacks ..."

So, their formula (or the one that someone else created and they use) would be:

Adjusted Net yards per Attempt = (passing yards + (20xTDs) - (45xINT) - sack yards) / (attempts + sacks)

I *think* - somebody check my work.

------------------------------

I found a copy of Berra's book, "Football by the Numbers 1986" in which he writes:

"We've used yards per pass as a basis for what we think is the single most important measure of a passing game's effectiveness, which I will call 'adjusted yards per pass.' What we've done is to subtract the sack yardage from the passing yards along with 50 yards for each interception thrown. Why 50 yards? To be entirely honest with you, the figure was part intuition and part guess. You have to figure that a team that doesn't throw an interception will have a chance on the next play to gain yardage, perhaps get a first down or even score. At the very least, a third- or fourth-down interception deprives a team of an opportunity to punt and put the opposition in poorer field position. On the other hand, some interceptions are as good as punts, or even better. There's simply no way to take it all into account and assign a precise value in yardage lost to interceptions, but years of studying the problem convinces us that 50 is a fair value. If any of you can come up with a more accurate number, please write us in care of our publisher and we'll try to make you famous. We really mean it: we welcome any and all comments on this."

So, Berra's formula (in 1986) is:

Adjusted yards per pass = (passing yards - sack yards + (50xInt)) / "passes"*

* He does not say whether a "pass" is a passing attempt or passing attempt + sack. He does include the "Adjusted Yards per Pass" stat for each team but does not include the numbers he used for each team to arrive at that so one could backward engineer it. For the '85 Packers, he writes:

"The Packers averaged only 6.95 yards per pass in 1985, which is just about the league mean. When you use our method and subtract the sack yardage and the 50-yard value for each interception, the Packers are down to 3.22."

Plugging in numbers for the '85 Packers on NFL.com (https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/of ... 85/reg/all), he was using sacks + pass attempts to define "passes" in his formula:

Adjusted yards per pass = (passing yards - sack yards + (50xInt)) / (attempts + sacks)

3.22025 = (3552 - 389 - (50x27)) / (513 + 50)
"Now, I want pizza." 
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